District 141 Meets with United, Secures Wage Increases for Members Working Under Modified Contracts

[WeAAsles]

Where would I be? On the street. That's the reality of at will employment.

UAL employees aren't in that boat, yet Klemm & co. brought back a TA worse than /anything/ we have here at DL. It's so sh*tty that the company (!) decided to reopen it early.
 

I'm not trying to make this a push and shove match because I hope you know by now I respect the hell out of you. But to be frank and honest you don't really have anything at DL. Anything and everything can be taken away tomorrow. You mention UAL but what did the Continental side bring to that table? What could an obviously greedy evil CEO like Smisek have done with what he was given? What did those who were negotiating for him maybe have said in that room to have made the IAM bring that second TA back? Why didn't Continental regain Union representation over the last 30 years that they had lost it? 

Which side had brought the stronger battering ram to that table?
 

That doesn't even touch on his deliberate moves to make it harder for people to run for office.

DL 141 is acting counter to everything labor generally stands for, and Klemm's driving the truck.

 
 
Yes of course they did do this and yes Klemm was the CEO of those actions. But that doesn't have anything to do with the conversation that I'm having and in all actually trying to get the full story on?

I also have to admit that I have a little bit of anger at all the idiots who don't and didn't want to get in a Union and when a merger was coming around they finally ran into the arms of someone to try to finally protect their own arses. They should have thought about that so many years earlier dammit.

And it also pisses me off because you guys are exposed as well and I hate reading the stories of guys being chucked out because all that runs through my mind is WTF, when the hell are they going to wake the F up over there????????

 

[WeAAsles]

Kev is this true? In the less than 2 years the IBT had to try and build a contract from scratch (from nothing) I guess they couldn't secure any language to protect work and jobs that then pissed off the new members so much that they ran for the IAM that was able to get the now combined group something. Nothing obviously fantastic but something. 

"While all Ramp/Fleet workers came into this election with existing representation, the quality of that representation became a campaign issue. The IBT negotiated an agreement that allowed Continental to outsource all Ramp/Fleet work, while IAM members at United have a contract that provided job security by guaranteeing work will be performed by United-IAM employees"

http://www.goiam.org/index.php/imail/latest/9069-united-airlines-rampfleet-workers-win-iam-representation

The IBT didn't negotiate an agreement that allowed United to outsource all Fleet work for now former Continental employees. They were not able to secure any language to protect them because they chose not to protect themselves for almost 30 years.

 

[Kev3188]

Well, you're citing the IAM themselves, so I wouldn't expect a glowing review of any IBT work.

I have that T/A somewhere, but can't remember the exact language, so I shouldn't comment on it.

That said, I /do/ remember UA trying to farm out 7 stations and then suddenly dropping that plan under pressure from the Teamsters...

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, you're citing the IAM themselves, so I wouldn't expect a glowing review of any IBT work.

I have that T/A somewhere, but can't remember the exact language, so I shouldn't comment on it.

That said, I /do/ remember UA trying to farm out 7 stations and then suddenly dropping that plan under pressure from the Teamsters...

And UAL also currently still has the ability to knock it back to 7 stations if these guys vote down their TA. What's going to prevent the company from doing whatever the hell it wants to if the language let's them do it? Sure public pressure is one thing and it does help if you can get past all the cheap bastards who don't care and just want the most rock bottom fare they can get.

So what protects them? BETTER LANGUAGE. And you know something else? IMO the only reason that they're getting this sweet (one time) deal is because of those Hedge Fund vultures circling the wagons. I think Munoz was still going to give them better than what they have but absolutely not this good. And again from where they are right now that deal is absolutely SPECTACULAR. Honestly they would be morons to turn it down.

Yea so what if it still has a few unsavory articles like no PT caps. They need to suck it up and hopefully in 4 to 5 years they can come back and fix that and anything else that might be bothering them.

 

[WeAAsles]

Whats the alternative  do you go back to the table or wait until your contract is up? To me its a win win or am I missing something?

No you missed nothing Worldport.

 

[Kev3188]

The deal is spectacular only when compared to the pos they have now.

As for the rest, The "we'll get 'em next time" mindset is why labor is on back foot all the time.

 

[T5towbar]

Kev is this true? In the less than 2 years the IBT had to try and build a contract from scratch (from nothing) I guess they couldn't secure any language to protect work and jobs that then pissed off the new members so much that they ran for the IAM that was able to get the now combined group something. Nothing obviously fantastic but something. 

"While all Ramp/Fleet workers came into this election with existing representation, the quality of that representation became a campaign issue. The IBT negotiated an agreement that allowed Continental to outsource all Ramp/Fleet work, while IAM members at United have a contract that provided job security by guaranteeing work will be performed by United-IAM employees"

http://www.goiam.org/index.php/imail/latest/9069-united-airlines-rampfleet-workers-win-iam-representation

The IBT didn't negotiate an agreement that allowed United to outsource all Fleet work for now former Continental employees. They were not able to secure any language to protect them because they chose not to protect themselves for almost 30 years.

Normally I would agree with you, but you seem to leave out a couple of important facts:
 
Why didn't the IAM get an agreement for the sUA members on their retro BEFORE the main negotiations began. This is one of the MAIN reasons why Wall & Bonds beat the negotiators over the table about the money. A smart union would have secured this money BEFORE any negotiations started. These members were due it, deserved it,  and it should have been done already, but these guys included this in the talks, and had to also throw in a couple of bucks to the sCO members just to keep them quiet.   You can't blame us on the sCO side for that one. We were spectators to all of this.  The IAM gambled at the table and lost.  This bad example of negotiating was somewhat corrected in the Association negotiations with the LUS people.  They didn't make that critical mistake. 
 
Also TA1 was much more worse than TA2 by the amount of more stations lost and more onerous work rules. So the District and the Company colluded to sell this deal by the District changing the voting process; and the company threw out another 70 million dollars to the pool of retro money. Once the 1-800-RETRO hotline came out and less people voted, it was a recipe for disaster.
 
And the rest is history................. 

 

[WeAAsles]

The deal is spectacular only when compared to the pos they have now.

As for the rest, The "we'll get 'em next time" mindset is why labor is on back foot all the time.

You know what Kev. Maybe you're right? Maybe I got to do a rethink here? These guys should vote it down.

So what if with shift differential they'll be going up to over $30,00 an hour or over $62,000 per year in November not including their benefits. (What did that BLS report state that I post pretty often for Baggage Handlers) 

So what if they're getting permanent security in 30 cities and another 17 protected till 2024 that could be protected permanently also in the next go around?

So what if they have a Pension and a 3% 401k match. (The entire Country has better than that one right)

You know what? They need to vote this POS down. It's absolutely horrible. They lost their freakin longevity pay for God's sake. What the hell was that numnuts Klemm thinking? (BTW didn't Delaney bring back that last deal)

Hey T5 I see that you're on. Where can I go to help you guys shoot this pig down? You're being shortchanged bro. There's a lot more meat on that bone you need to get yourselves out for.

Let's go man. Who's with me? (Bluto charge AAaaaaaaa) The Germans have bombed Pearl Harbor.

 

[WeAAsles]

Normally I would agree with you, but you seem to leave out a couple of important facts:
 
Why didn't the IAM get an agreement for the sUA members on their retro BEFORE the main negotiations began. This is one of the MAIN reasons why Wall & Bonds beat the negotiators over the table about the money. A smart union would have secured this money BEFORE any negotiations started. These members were due it, deserved it,  and it should have been done already, but these guys included this in the talks, and had to also throw in a couple of bucks to the sCO members just to keep them quiet.   You can't blame us on the sCO side for that one. We were spectators to all of this.  The IAM gambled at the table and lost.  This bad example of negotiating was somewhat corrected in the Association negotiations with the LUS people.  They didn't make that critical mistake. 
 
Also TA1 was much more worse than TA2 by the amount of more stations lost and more onerous work rules. So the District and the Company colluded to sell this deal by the District changing the voting process; and the company threw out another 70 million dollars to the pool of retro money. Once the 1-800-RETRO hotline came out and less people voted, it was a recipe for disaster.
 
And the rest is history................. 

Dude you guys brought in eventually the IAM and it was their job to protect ALL of you and negotiate for ALL of you as a collective. Not to think "what can I get for one group even if it screws the other" Retro is great and lord knows that it absolutely should be a part of any talks but when you are "negotiating" you never get the luxury of getting everything you want.

So when they negotiated they were duly bound and obligated by Law to negotiate for all of you as one complete group. It was their task to try and get a JCBA for everyone. And again nothing personal to you but it was your group who brought nothing to the marriage. No Dowry except maybe one broken down old goat. (That's what I'm guessing the IBT got for you in such a limited amount of time starting from scratch) 

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Different story. UsAir merges with American Airlines. Usair got a Union IAM a number of years ago and was able to secure 178 pages of contract language to offer with their newly married partner AA TWU who has currently 209 pages of contract language.

Those two books together make for a much easier negotiating session. The company isn't holding any gun that they can use to shoot off someones testicles if they like. If they don't want to make a new deal we just continue on our merry way.

This is where the two stories for a UAL/CAL and a US/AA merger are not going to have the same story line.

 

[700UW]

You do realize the locals voted to bring the bylaw change to the convention and usually the locals tell the delegates how to vote at the convention.

 

[WeAAsles]

Otter: Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
 
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5c2YR1lVE

 

[Kev3188]

You know what Kev. Maybe you're right? Maybe I got to do a rethink here? These guys should vote it down.

So what if with shift differential they'll be going up to over $30,00 an hour or over $62,000 per year in November not including their benefits. (What did that BLS report state that I post pretty often for Baggage Handlers) 

So what if they're getting permanent security in 30 cities and another 17 protected till 2024 that could be protected permanently also in the next go around?

So what if they have a Pension and a 3% 401k match. (The entire Country has better than that one right)

You know what? They need to vote this POS down. It's absolutely horrible. They lost their freakin longevity pay for God's sake. What the hell was that numnuts Klemm thinking? (BTW didn't Delaney bring back that last deal)

Hey T5 I see that you're on. Where can I go to help you guys shoot this pig down? You're being shortchanged bro. There's a lot more meat on that bone you need to get yourselves out for.

Let's go man. Who's with me? (Bluto charge AAaaaaaaa) The Germans have bombed Pearl Harbor.

Sarcasm duly noted...

30 cities? How many did they have just a few short years ago? Heck, even NW came through BK with 40.

...and we have JFK listed even though UA doesn't fly there, but not a single reopened city? What gives?

I don't get to vote yes/no here, but the problem is a lot bigger than just the T/A in question...

 

[WeAAsles]

Sarcasm duly noted...
30 cities? How many did they have just a few short years ago? Heck, even NW came through BK with 40.
...and we have JFK listed even though UA doesn't fly there, but not a single reopened city? What gives?
I don't get to vote yes/no here, but the problem is a lot bigger than just the T:A in question...

Kev it's beginning to seem like you're trying to ignore the story of what was "not" brought to the table in that merger?

And maybe you're right that the problem in this conversation may be a little bigger than even you might realize? It seems like you may have an ax to grind against the guys in this District of the IAM? And yea now I'm thinking about you and your group.

What do I keep saying it's all about man? An "Employment Contract" The politics to the average guy don't mean a hill of beans. It's those couple of hundred pages in some book handed to me by my Union with my rights displayed in them that I dive head in for.

I'm beginning to honestly wonder if your heart is really in it if you can be so easily distracted with all the other stuff that just means crap?

"Employment Contract" Kev. That's the Golden Egg.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW I'm not directly a member of the IAM but since my true Union who I pay dues to has a marriage with this other group, that indirectly makes me an IAM member. IAM District 141 is negotiating my future and possible fortunes. So don't think I don't have a vested interest in what goes on with them.

If I think any of them are actually going to put me or my people in any type of harms way, I'll come out and make Nelson look like a piker with a kiddie shovel in the sand box.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm not sure when exactly the IAM organized at NWA but going back to this find I know that it was at least 1989. Maybe my buddy 700 can give me the exact date? Anyway this tells me that at least from 1989 on the IAM was able to build up language (important thing) for the people they represented at NWA. Good or great language takes time and and many years to build. So even in a BK situation especially now with the law of the 1113 in place the hits by percentage won't be as bad if there was a good build over many years.

I love learning and reading honestly.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/712/732/1475761/