Delta running Usairways out of GSO!

[sfb]

GSO fares might be lower than RDU in some isolated instances, but, on average, DOT's figures show them to be close to 10-15% higher than RDU's average fares. That's driving a lot of traffic to RDU; even with a larger population in the Triad, RDU draws well over three times as many passengers. Moreover, although Midway's shutdown and restart as a smaller discounter pulled a lot of capacity from the RDU market, GSO showed a larger decrease in passenger counts than RDU for the 2nd quarter of 2002 vs. the same period in 2001 -- approximately 11% versus 9%.

The thing is, GSO has got to pose quite a dilemma to US Airways. Yes, the airline has a large base of loyal customers in the Triad. Yes, US Airways can't afford to keep giving up markets. But there are a lot of downsides to GSO, too. The flights to CLT are all (for obvious reasons) connecting passengers, and connecting traffic just isn't as profitable as O&D traffic. GSO also draws traffic from CLT, so offering lots of low fares from GSO while connecting those passengers through CLT hurts hub yields at CLT. And RDU puts pressure on revenues at GSO as well. Should the airline lower fares at GSO to grab back traffic from RDU, even though that would hurt CLT? Or do they sacrifice GSO (except for travelers willing to pay a premium for convenience), protect CLT, and allow RDU to grab all the low-yield traffic?

Delta/Airtran have a bit of an advantage with their operations at GSO given that ATL is the second-largest market from GSO; they're both able to get enough O&D traffic to make service to their hubs worthwhile. The only one of US's hubs in GSO's top 5 markets is PHL, with approximately 120 passengers each way per day. And connecting yields to markets served by Airtran are poor; GSO-MCO's yield is half that of CLT-MCO. CVG is also a better place to connect to the West and Midwest, given DL's large RJ operation and CVG's slightly better geographical location compared to PIT.

It's just a really tough problem given the combination of the hub structure and the historical cost structure.

 

[BIGDOG]

..............The BUZZARDS are flying over are heads.

As U drops or cuts back in cities the Buzzards land,with bigger airplanes.

The city i work in there game plan is to fly back to back flights to Pit in express airplanes and carry the same amount of passengers we used to carry on the JETS we use to run to PIT.

YES,are great brain trust...OH BROTHER...

AND THEY HAVE A GAME PLAN TO BAIL US OUT.

PLEASE............

GOD BLESS US ALL !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ISN]

SFB said: “The flights to CLT are all (for obvious reasons) connecting passengers, and connecting traffic just isn't as profitable as O&D trafficâ€￾. "GSO also draws traffic from CLT, so offering lots of low fares from GSO while connecting those passengers through CLT hurts hub yields at CLT".

INS replys: True but don’t you see what Delta is doing, they are taking U’s CLT O&D traffic out of CLT by attacking from cities like GSO and GSP. Pretty slick. I venture to say half of the passengers that fly out of GSO on Delta could use CLT or GSO. They are looking for the best fare and Delta is ready in GSO when they are, with the seats and fare. RDU's numbers are up due to the presents of Southwest. How long will it be before Southwest joins Delta in attacking U's CLT hub by entering GSO, GSP markets. I see GSO & GSP as a battle ground for U and her CLT hub.

I took a closer look at total seats out of GSO between noon and 730pm Delta has close to 1000 seats to ATL or MCO (south). U has only 100 seats (south). U is down to two depts. Between 1130AM and 650PM., a dash-3 and a RJ.

Delta also has 3 non-stops to DFW, non-stops to CVG, LGA.

 

[sfb]

ISN-

You're absolutely right about Delta grabbing US Airways' traffic from GSO, but there's not a whole lot of recourse. O&D traffic to ATL makes those Delta (and AirTran) flights more profitable than what US can garner with flights to CLT. Not to mention that the sheer scale of the ATL hub, combined with Atlanta's metro area population, allows Delta size efficiencies as well as network opportunities which simply don't make sense out of CLT because of lack of O&D traffic.

It's also important to remember that regional geography has had an influence; there are few airports with large jet service within 150 miles of ATL (BHM is the closest at 135 miles, I believe). That's not the case for CLT, which is relatively close to GSP, GSO, RDU (130 miles), etc. And US Airways doesn't really have the resources to mount some kind of assault on the Delta hub from Macon or Chattanooga or Columbus, GA; moreover, the potential effect would be tiny compared to what Delta sees from the AirTran ATL hub.

Delta would have the most to gain from a potential failure of US Airways, so I don't think it's surprising that Delta would continue to try to put pressure on the CLT hub (not to mention the PIT hub with RJ's from CVG).

You're right about RDU numbers being up due in part to the "Southwest effect"; some of that has come at the expense of GSO and many of the smaller NC airports that had been US strongholds through the Express carriers. And GSO or GSP certainly would draw from CLT if Southwest were to move into either or both. But there's a lot more to worry about than WN at GSO or GSP.

 

[PHL]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 4:12:28 PM RowUnderDCA wrote:

That is sad.

I swear, at one point, I flew nonstop between GSO and IAH. Or was I just dreaming... PI of course.
----------------
[/blockquote]

You weren't dreaming. GSO was a mini-hub for CO back in the early 90's. Until around 1994-95, actually, which is right about when CO "Lite" was nixed. They had all the gates at the end of one of the rotundas (or was it the *only* rotunda?).

 

[ISN]

I hope U makes a move to hang on to this great market, she can’t afford to lose anymore GSO’s. I look for someone other than FedEx to take advantage of GSO’s new parallel 10,000â€￾ runways when they are complete in 2006. I wouldn't be suprised to see Gordon back in town.

PS: Busy night in GSO last night, U had two flights to CLT after 12 noon (100 seats). Second one ran late, most had to rebooked, Delta advs us not to send anymore passengers to them because they were full, thats all 900 pm seats to ATL and they also filled up both of their non stop flights to MCO, and DFW, total over 1000 seats. It's hard to watch all those passengers walk past the U gates they use to stop at!

 

[ISN]

Heard a rumor from a PTI employee that JetBlue is looking to make a big move into GSO. Has anyone else heard this? Makes sense GSO is 1 hour and 30 from CLT, and 1 hour and 15 from RDU, they could draw traffic from all three cities. 4 millon people.

 

[autofixer]

How about Hooters Air out of INT? I can't wait to ride on that one!

 

[deltawatch]

DELTA still bashing U's CLT using GSO


US Airways in no hurry to cut hub fares in CLT

Local travel agents and business people report little change in US Airways' pricing here, reflecting its continued dominance at its largest operation. "Fares are the most confusing thing in airlines,' says Mann Travels owner Gary Silverstein. "I don't know what they are doing. I don't think they know what they are doing."

Travelers in the Washington area are seeing big changes, where US Airways faces low-fare rivals Southwest Airlines and upstart Independence Air.

US Airways on June 18 rolled out its "Go Fares" to 22 cities, capped the cost of half of its pre-booked, one-way flights from Reagan National Airport and Dulles International Airport at $499. Previously some of those flights cost as much as $1,350.

The cheapest one-way fares of $79 will get Washington-area travelers to the Carolinas, Florida and Missouri.

Likewise, on April 29 the airline cut fares from Philadelphia International Airport to 13 cities, in anticipation of Southwest Airlines' expansion there.

Because of those changes, it's now less expensive to fly on US Airways between those cities and Raleigh and Columbia, which are included in the Go Fares. Those two airports have low-fare competition.

But Charlotte and Greensboro aren't part of Go Fares or any other strategy to reduce prices. A walk-up fare between Philadelphia and Los Angeles this week was $618, compared with $2,003 between Charlotte and Los Angeles. A walk-up fare refers to a ticket bought within a day of departure.

"It's difficult to speculate when (Go Fares) might come to Charlotte," US Airways spokeswoman Amy Kudwa says. "We'd like to roll it out systemwide because we know low simple fares are what people want. It's a matter of us getting our costs in line and then rolling out the fares more widely."

US Airways wants to cut its annual labor costs by $800 million as part of an overall $1.5 billion cost-trimming effort. Failure to do so may force the airline to return to bankruptcy court for a second time, company officials say.

But this week officials of the airline's biggest union, the International Association of Machinists, said they aren't interested in talking about cutting wages and benefits.

Piedmont/Triad International Airport expects US Airways to cut fares between the Triad and Washington and Philadelphia after Aug. 1, when low-fare carrier Independence Air starts service, airport marketing representative Stephanie Freeman says.

Delta Airlines this week is adding two daily nonstop flights from Greensboro to both JFK International Airport in New York and Logan International Airport in Boston.

Veteran travel agent Heidi Massey of AAA Carolinas Travel predicts more Charlotte-area passengers will opt to fly from Greensboro and Raleigh.

"We're seeing a few low rates out of Charlotte, but nothing very substantial," says Massey. "We don't have to ask people if they want us to check prices in Greensboro, because they know that the fares are usually better there."

Despite the continued high fares, passenger traffic is booming in Charlotte. Through April, passenger enplanements had increased by 365,000, or 11%, to 3.85 million, compared with the first four months of 2003. May statistics aren't available yet.

In Greensboro, airport traffic is up 5% through the end of May, to about 511,000 enplanements. Unlike Greensboro, most of Charlotte's airport traffic reflects travelers switching planes at the US Airways hub.

A stronger economy and lessening security fears have sparked rising traffic again at many U.S. airports. Denver International Airport reports a 19% increase through April, while traffic is up 18% at Orlando International Airport.

Because of US Airways' dominance, Charlotte/Douglas in recent years has attracted only one carrier that emphasizes low fares. Indianapolis-based ATA Holdings Inc. operates direct flights between Charlotte and Chicago.

Because of the ATA competition, a passenger buying a walk-up fare to Chicago this week could land a round-trip ticket on US Airways for $272. By comparison, a walk-up fare to Dallas this week was $1,054.

 

[FrankWasRight]

A small point-but didn't Delta retire the 727 last year ? The last Delta 727 pax flight was 4-8-03,oddly enough GSO-ATL.

 

[tadjr]

A small point-but didn't Delta retire the 727 last year ? The last Delta 727 pax flight was 4-8-03,oddly enough GSO-ATL.

Someone must have done a search. The original post was from Jan 2003! It died a long time ago and was just brought back to life with the post right above yours to show that it still continues in GSO.

 

[Superjames]

This is why CLT O & D traffic is not as great as it should be. Many of the people who live in the CLT area live north and northeast of the city. That puts them a short one hour drive to GSO. That coupled with GSO-INT area having over 1,000,000 residents, makes and has made the GSO airport an attractive target. PI knew it, U screwed it up as usual.

 

[deltawatch]

Exactly tadjr, I remembered reading it last year. Nothing has changed. Delta today flies GSO-ATL hourly with the larger Boeing and MD80 equipment. They fly non-stop to LGA, CVG, DFW, MCO, and now JFK and BOS. US Airways has cut its mainline down to two flights to PHL and I think 4 to CLT. Delta has found it can under cut CLT fares and redirect passengers from CLT back to Delta this way. Someone posted on here once that U didn’t serve GSO better because that would encorage more CLT passengers to go to GSO. Delta loves that logic!

 

[repeet]

Now their's an interesting thought. If you combine CLT and GSO's O&D numbers, how would that compare with other hubs and Markets?

 

[Justaramper]

Lets see what DL does after it "tries" to get the house in order...Too many assumptions that all these flights are full and that U doesn't want to compete...