Delta negotiating major SEA gate expansion

[WorldTraveler]

of course you don't understand SLC... since AA has not mountain hub while DL, UA, and WN all do.

SLC serves a viable role that neither MSP or SEA can replace.

you might want to remind us what AA and US both did with terminal commitments. PIT and STL anyone?

meanwhile, DL's summer schedules for SEA 2015 are available for sale....

29% increase in seats.

6 daily on SEA-ANC


one more HNL -

9 on ATL-SEA

9 on LAX-SEA, all of which are mainline except for 1 large RJ

8 per day to SFO - on E jets, one more RT than last summer

SLC - 7 per day, all but one mainline.

 

[eolesen]

As I said, SLC is a hub of geographic convenience. I'm sure you could figure out what geography means all on your own if you really wanted to.

SLC is no different than the SJU hub was for AA, except that the feeder markets are separated by mountains instead of water.

PIT's a good example of walking away on a commitment, but STL probably isn't. The airport never upgraded the airport terminal assuming TW there forever.

A more relevant example from AA would have been RDU or BNA, since the terminals in both were expanded to meet AA's needs for a microhub. Even there, the facts in those cases tend to work against your argument: AA paid out the full value of the leases on those terminals up until the point the airport asked for the space back.

The point is... there's no such thing as a long term commitment when you start talking about airlines in second tier city hubs. The world changes, to paraphrase DL's legal team.

And no matter how you want to position things, SLC is a second tier hub. The dots it needs to connect are already connected, and there isn't a lot of opportunity to try and stimulate local demand beyond where it is.

 

[jcw]

of course you don't understand SLC... since AA has not mountain hub while DL, UA, and WN all do.

SLC serves a viable role that neither MSP or SEA can replace.

you might want to remind us what AA and US both did with terminal commitments. PIT and STL anyone?

meanwhile, DL's summer schedules for SEA 2015 are available for sale....

29% increase in seats.

6 daily on SEA-ANC


one more HNL -

9 on ATL-SEA

9 on LAX-SEA, all of which are mainline except for 1 large RJ

8 per day to SFO - on E jets, one more RT than last summer

SLC - 7 per day, all but one mainline.

 
So what you are saying it's OK for DL to have two hubs close together so if that is the case then it's OK for AA to have two hubs close together - so remember that when trashing AA on its hub and hub strategy

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you, E, for showing your ignorance on yet one more network issue.

you have no clue why it exists so no one would expect you would understand why DL makes money there and intends to keep it.

DL's hub in SLC isn't going anywhere

for starters relative to SEA, SLC isn't a transpac gateway and probably never will be.

 

[jcw]

yes - we know the only person on this board who has worked in network planning is WT -NOT 
 
to bad you don't know what your talking about
 
let's see how long SLC sticks around - makes no sense to keep that hub with the SEA hub
 
DL should do great with the SEA hub once the SLC is rationalized to the size of MEM

 

[WorldTraveler]

glad to see you've staked your ignorance on the same level as E.

SLC is going nowhere.

not sure what you think you will prove by arguing a point that makes no sense.

You are peeved that DL will have a mountain hub in SLC, a Pacific hub at SEA, and still have a hub at LAX.

PHX is the hub most likely to be rationalized and your coworkers are the ones who believe it based on what they post here.

 

[jcw]

Yes - that is right PHX is toast just like SLC - neither one makes sense using your logic

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are pi78ed that DL is actually growing SEA mainline like I said they would on top of SLC. you tried to ignore the stats regarding how much mainline capacity DL has added at SEA.

again, your problem is that DL's network strategy is far stronger and the west is just the latest example.

feel free to try to argue that SLC will close.... remember that E also predicted with great fanfare how much damage WN would do to DL in ATL. since there are now 20 markets that WN has closed in just the last year from ATL and WN is smaller from ATL than FL/WN has been in ATL for at least a decade, E is clearly wrong.

I wouldn't stake your flimsy reputation by standing next to E regarding SLC.

DL will have a 3 fold hub strategy in the west.

 

[jcw]

No it's great that DL is growing in SEA - it's a great plan running from the LAX competition - good strategy - and why if anyone is really serious about the strategy you would quickly rationalize SLC
 
If you are truly objective you would have come up with a list of things DL fails at - you still can't
 
Let's see DL can have a 3 fold hub strategy in the west and no one else can?

 

[WorldTraveler]

actually, DL and UA both have triple hub strategies in the western US.

and UA has the most seats of the big 3, followed by DL, and then AA.

DL and UA have nearly identical numbers of seats from LAX and UA at DEN is slightly larger than DL at SLC but UA is shrinking DEN while DL is growing SLC.

you are obsessed with trying to see failure.... these are just basic marketing facts. DL and UA both see value in mountain hubs but dual west coast hubs.

HP DBA AA has PHX and LAX.

 

[jcw]

Translation:
 
Obsession - 14,257 posts to 860 posts - I know math is a tough one for some - looks like YOU have the obsession
 
Once gain DL's strategy of running from LA is a great plan - I wish them success - just like we will see who is the largest in boston in a couple of years - we will see who is the largest in LA, etc

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can only make a statement about running from LAX out of ignorance, not fact.

DL has grown LAX more than any other carrier.

AA is finally waking up but DL and UA are now virtually identical in size... and DL still hasn't announced its total network plans for next year which could well mean more LAX seats.

DL and UA both have triple hubs that form a nice triangle over the western US. AA has two hubs which are a east-west a couple hundred miles apart.

DL and UA will be viable competitors for all of the west while AA will have at best two hubs where they will have to fight it out with a legion of foreign carriers and DL and UA for int'l traffic from LAX while DL and UA will dominate their respective west coast in'tl hubs.

 

[jcw]

you can only make a statement about running from LAX out of ignorance, not fact.

DL has grown LAX more than any other carrier.

AA is finally waking up but DL and UA are now virtually identical in size... and DL still hasn't announced its total network plans for next year which could well mean more LAX seats.

DL and UA both have triple hubs that form a nice triangle over the western US. AA has two hubs which are a east-west a couple hundred miles apart.

DL and UA will be viable competitors for all of the west while AA will have at best two hubs where they will have to fight it out with a legion of foreign carriers and DL and UA for int'l traffic from LAX while DL and UA will dominate their respective west coast in'tl hubs.

 
Bless your heart on the personal attacks again - this one has you spun up doesn't - might want to take some more meds
 
If LA was such a huge success DL would have be built it's Asian hub at LA already - let's think about this for a while - DL bought the Asian operation - how long ago?  All this time it could not mount a creditable Asian hub in LA so it has to start a new one - DL failed at turning LA into a creditable Asian gateway and had to punt to SEA and start from scratch
 
Sorry once again don't let the facts get in the way on your fantasy play

 

[topDawg]

No it's great that DL is growing in SEA - it's a great plan running from the LAX competition - good strategy - and why if anyone is really serious about the strategy you would quickly rationalize SLC
 
If you are truly objective you would have come up with a list of things DL fails at - you still can't
 
Let's see DL can have a 3 fold hub strategy in the west and no one else can?

Delta has been double digit growth from LAX. I think you'll also find out that DL is larger than AA for international flying. (and as far as widebody international flying AA and DL both have four destinations. GRU, NRT, LHR and PVG for AA, SYD, HND, NRT and LHR for DL. 
 

 
Bless your heart on the personal attacks again - this one has you spun up doesn't - might want to take some more meds
 
If LA was such a huge success DL would have be built it's Asian hub at LA already - let's think about this for a while - DL bought the Asian operation - how long ago?  All this time it could not mount a creditable Asian hub in LA so it has to start a new one - DL failed at turning LA into a creditable Asian gateway and had to punt to SEA and start from scratch
 
Sorry once again don't let the facts get in the way on your fantasy play

what exactly has Delta added that failed. NRT, SYD, HND are all still right where they have been. 
 
And I can flip that on you, why is AA running scared to DFW if LAX is such a success story for them? After adding LAX-PVG AA has been the lost avg fare carrier in the market and added DFW-HKG, ICN, PEK, PVG. 
 
 

DL doesn't create schedules for employee travel either.

DL has indeed flown 767-300ERs on ATL-SEA.

as for cargo, remember DL does still have a hub in Tokyo and a flight from ATL to there.

cargo doesn't care if it changes planes in Tokyo or Seattle.

DL also serves many of the same points in Asia via DTW which does see widebody aircraft at times.

and DL has upgraded 757 flights to widebodies for cargo, not just on domestic but even on int'l flights.

Okay, try to read what I said. I didn't say the 763ER hasn't flown to SEA. I said generally ATL-SEA is a domestic 763 and JFK is the place that gets 76Z/76Ls. 
 
and NRT is a hub and thats great, unless you want to ship a car from ATL-HKG...... 
 

Wonder how long it will be before DL shuts SLC - no need for two northwest US hubs just like no need for AA to have two hubs in the Southeast or the PHX and LAX hubs

SLC is in the Northwest now? When did it move? 
 

SLC should ask the DFW airport board how DL deals with long term leases of 20+ gates...

SLC's a hub of geographic convenience more than economics. Just look at the makeup of the operation -- mostly small jets to small places. Reminds me of what MEM became before it wasn't a hub.

trending in the wrong direction for it be comparable E. 
 
SLC will be CR7 or larger by S16. (and increased flights) 
 
MEM was getting smaller, SLC is getting larger. 
 
 
 
*note, CR7 or larger minus the OO at risk flying done on CRJs/EM2s. Its only a hand full of markets, mostly intra-Utah that is at-risk. 

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Bless your heart on the personal attacks again - this one has you spun up doesn't - might want to take some more meds
 
If LA was such a huge success DL would have be built it's Asian hub at LA already - let's think about this for a while - DL bought the Asian operation - how long ago?  All this time it could not mount a creditable Asian hub in LA so it has to start a new one - DL failed at turning LA into a creditable Asian gateway and had to punt to SEA and start from scratch
 
Sorry once again don't let the facts get in the way on your fantasy play

Did you forget about the huge Asia opertation Delta had at PDX with the L1011?