Delta exits LAX-LHR

[jcw]

If you didn't want hype about the cutting of LAX-LHR then you shouldn't had all the hype when DL started it -  posting very very very long posts claiming DL would crush AA in the market - go back and read your posts
 
We are discussing the business issues - DL failed at LAX-LHR and EWR-LHR - just discussing the facts based upon public actions DL took to exit markets - remember you don't exit markets if you are enjoying profits
 
Tough one

 

[WorldTraveler]

how about you find those posts where I said DL would crush AA in the market.

again, there is a JV for both AA and DL to LHR and for AA to Japan. If there is no failure for AA to Japan, there is no failure for DL to LHR.

you can't have it both ways.

 

[jcw]

Oh so now the movement of AA LAX from NRT to HND won't be a failure due to the JV - thanks for coming around to that argument - change in your position - glad you are agree with the AA JV in Asia - it's all good news for AA - glad you can see the positives of the AA JV in Japan

 

[WorldTraveler]

I see you have nothing else to do today but wait for me to post so you can throw your disconnected babbling on the site.

I never said that AA LAX-HND would be a failure. I said it would just be a reallocation of its LAX-NRT service.

and the JV will give the AA-JL JV two HND markets - if AA bothers to take advantage of the opportunity to start a route in the winter.

btw, AA hasn't even bothered to announce it is flying LAX-HND yet and there is a thread on it.

suppose we can count on you to be the first to find the press release and post it?

 

[jcw]

I see you have nothing else to do today but wait for me to post so you can throw your disconnected babbling on the site.

I never said that AA LAX-HND would be a failure. I said it would just be a reallocation of its LAX-NRT service.

and the JV will give the AA-JL JV two HND markets - if AA bothers to take advantage of the opportunity to start a route in the winter.

btw, AA hasn't even bothered to announce it is flying LAX-HND yet and there is a thread on it.

suppose we can count on you to be the first to find the press release and post it?

 
Wait a second - who is on this site constantly working to get the last word in on every thread - wait, wait, wait oh yes that is you
 
Now back to reality - what you said is that AA will struggle to move from NRT to HND and said it would be hard to manage the schedule change
 
Actually it's interesting you only start threads on DL board that are positive news - when anything is negative about DL you never start that thread
 
Why would they have to announce something immediately - maybe AA unlike DL gets things in order before announcements - unlike DL announcements about all the service it was starting on WN
 
Now let's see who is sitting around waiting to post

 

[WorldTraveler]

I said NOTHING about AA's ability to reaccom its passengers.

I spend as much time on here because you either can't comprehend or just make up schick to try and get your own last word in on the basis of arguing something that is not even being said.

If you would spend just a tad more time reading and comprehending instead of arguing what was NOT said, you wouldn't have to worry about who gets in the last word.

AA has immediate backup authority to start HND. That was established in the DL case. that was the only part of what you wrote that makes any sense to the discussion.

 

[jcw]

I said NOTHING about AA's ability to reaccom its passengers.

I spend as much time on here because you either can't comprehend or just make up schick to try and get your own last word in on the basis of arguing something that is not even being said.

If you would spend just a tad more time reading and comprehending instead of arguing what was NOT said, you wouldn't have to worry about who gets in the last word.

AA has immediate backup authority to start HND. That was established in the DL case. that was the only part of what you wrote that makes any sense to the discussion.

 
The problem is you post so much you can't remember what you post.
 
On the AA board you indicated in post #15 of the HND discussion that AA will have trouble re-booking passengers because they will be ticked
 
So if DL can change passengers from HND to NRT out of SEA then AA can move passengers from NRT to HND - actually AA has a leg up as it can put passengers on JL metal - let's take that in for a minute - wait wait wait - that's right DL doesn't have that option out of SEA they do not have a partner in Japan
 
Look how fast you posted to try to get in the last word

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, I said nothing about AA having any technical reason why it couldn't reaccom passengers from its NRT flight to its HND flight.

I said it didn't make sense to do so other than to put butts in seats on the HND flight.

Many of the passengers on AA's LAX-NRT flight (about 20%) connect beyond NRT to another destination and most of those connections won't work from HND based on AA's operating times.

DL schedules beyond Tokyo connections via NRT. Both of its HND flights are almost entirely US traffic and half of LAX-HND is local. HND is a local Tokyo market because of the slot times.

Again, I have to post to correct the blatantly erroneous statements that you make.

I would happy to let you or others have the last word if they didn't manipulate or distort what is said.

 

[FWAAA]

Many of the passengers on AA's LAX-NRT flight (about 20%) connect beyond NRT to another destination and most of those connections won't work from HND based on AA's operating times.

Not exactly. The two biggies, SIN and BKK, connect well at HND, as JAL flies to both with late-night redeye departures. If they're NRT-only connections, then the JAL LAX-NRT flight works well for them.

DL schedules beyond Tokyo connections via NRT. Both of its HND flights are almost entirely US traffic and half of LAX-HND is local. HND is a local Tokyo market because of the slot times.

Granted, the primary purpose of re-opening HND to long-haul flights was the premise that tons and tons of business travelers preferred HND to far-away NRT, and thus, no surprise that many LAX-HND passengers fit that profile. LAX features more TYO O&D than any other USA gateway.

AA and UA have a slight HND advantage due to their onward connections from HND via their JV partners JAL and ANA, respectively. Dunno (nor care) whether that advantage translates into huge dollars, but I'm sure you'll disagree.

 

[Kev3188]

I see you have nothing else to do today but wait for me to post so you can throw your disconnected babbling on the site.

It's never a long wait...

 
 

Again, I have to post...

You don't "have" to do anything. There's nothing compulsory about this site.

You choose to. Big difference.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I choose to participate because some people choose to intentionally manipulate what I say in order to try to defame me.


I haven't seen you or others sit back when people have defamed you, let alone the organizations you are loyal to - and I wouldn't expect you to.

I have repeatedly said that I want a site where people can openly discuss business issues - my preference for discussion topics - without turning the conversations into personal pi87ing matches. and yet repeatedly when real data is presented, far too many people here turn the conversations into attacks on other people instead of admitting that perhaps someone else might be right and might have the information and knowledge to present that data.

I make the choice to stay as involved on this forum as I do to ensure that it either is a place where the honest and objective interchange of ideas takes place or else I will be well in the thick of it all making sure that my point is made.

You and others who say you want that environment and want less of my participation would do well to help create an environment where facts and non-personal attacks are the norm and those who choose to attack others esp. when they bring facts that they don't like are solidly called out.  If I had a nickel for every time I have been caller a liar or my user name has been manipulated and it has left unchanged by the moderators, I would be a very rich man.  I shouldn't have to be constantly pushing the report button to create a climate that the board should have and moderators should AUTOMATICALLY ESTABLISH every time they participate in the forum in any capacity. 
 
There are a number of bright and articulate people on this forum including you and FWAAA who generally stay further away from the personal attacks than others and who make the forum enjoyable.

and to FWAAA's point, BKK is a top O&D for AA's LAX-NRT flight (although it is low-yielding traffic) and does connect well via HND but there are still about 20% of AA's traffic that does not connect over HND based on an 11pm ish arrival.

and if AA really uses a 787, it is a smaller aircraft than even the current configuration 777s so all of the connections aren't necessary - but AA has to get its share of high value local HND traffic who are willing to pay for taxis or use personal cars based on the arrival time of the flight and the limited public transportation options.  A big part of the reason why the HND slots are not attractive is because many people do not want to arrive close to midnight esp. if they live some distance from the airport. 
 
and while some business travelers pay for the close-in convenience of HND - DL's average fare on LAX-HND is higher than LAX-NRT - there are some coach passengers who will be lost and the pool of business travelers does not grow near as fast as the pool of additional coach passengers that AA will have to tap in order to make this route work. 
 
AA is by definition adding more than 20% more seats to the HND market by taking a route that DL did not operate for a number of months of the year. 
 
and HND will always be subject to price competition from NRT where the weaker yen is causing NRT fares to fall.  So, AA could well push traffic onto its own new HND flight - but at the expense of AA/JL flights from NRT. 
 
btw, this topic is about DL and LAX-LHR.  Other than MAH's glee in posting DL's withdrawal from the market on its own metal, there is no reason to keep this topic open, esp. since half or more of the posts regarding AA's HND and NRT service MUST INVOLVE its JV partner JL.  The same type of JV arrangement that will make or break AA's LAX-HND flight is the exact same type of arrangement that is being used by DL in LAX-LHR on VS metal as well as MSP, SEA, and PHL to LHR where there is no VS metal. 

 

[700UW]

Pot meet Kettle.

You are the boards biggest culprit of making things up and when you get called out you try and place the onus on other posters. You lie more than a Persian rug.

Where are the facts on the following?

DL/VS JV being more profitable than any other JV.

Spirit changing its schedule every two weeks.

What protection does Kevin have in regards to scope.

UA being overstaffed at JFK.

DL being allowed to add eight extra flights at DAL.

And there is a reason why you are negative 10,000.

Shall I continue?

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you for proving my point.

instead of discussing topics in the threads where they belong, you drag them all over the board in an attempt to defame me.

Just because you don't like the facts that I present doesn't begin to make them wrong. I don't have to pull out staffing models or post legal documents in order to support claims that you don't want.

No, you should not continue because you and your mindset are precisely why people like Kev doesn't want to spend as much time here. and, btw, in case you missed it, I am staying out of the current IAM discussion to leave it to you. As long as you or others don't make factually inaccurate statements, I am happy to leave the conversation to others. I am doing exactly what I said I will do - as long as my name isn't dragged thru the mud or people make factually inaccurate statements.

no, you should not continue but you SHOULD instead learn to participate in discussions in a world where it is wrong to call people liars because they don't present evidence that convinces you - who has repeatedly proven that you don't move many of your positions regardless of what facts are put on the table.

If you can't change and adapt, you should not continue.

and you and Kev and others shouldn't be surprised that I will continue to be very involved on this board until there is a positive environment for presenting a diversity of often-opposing and uncomfortable ideas is found and treated on this board.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Any  'Supposed'  #1 airline in the USA could make LAX/LHR work automatically, BUT...NOT So DEL-DUH !!
And for all the DL/SEA noise coming out of the big boys in  HOT-LANTA,  you're NEVER going to see  (a) DL...SEA/LHR,  ....AND I seriously doubt if DL could make a SCL/LHR work either.   DL was/is/and always will be.......an....'east of the mississippi airline'.
(Not so....AA or UA).  Before DL 'robbed' NW, they weren't not shiit from anywhere west of LAX.

 

[WorldTraveler]

we could just as easily say the same thing about NYC to Tokyo. We've discussed that it isn't logically (what's logic doing on this site anyway?) possible to argue that AA can count its JVs from NYC but DL can't count them from LAX.

and DL does fly SEA-LHR.

funny how you want to use the Mississippi as the dividing line since DFW falls west of the mighty Miss but east of the Rockies.

You've probably missed it since you don't post a whole lot on the airline specific forums but DL is larger on the west coast than AA/US based on current schedule data.

and yeah, you are right that DL is the largest airline east of the Mississippi which is what you get with hubs at ATL, DTW, JFK, LGA, and MSP. and, btw, NW had no US hubs west of the Mississippi although MSP airport proper is west of the Mississippi even though the MS river runs thru downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul is north and east of the MS river.

so, yeah, AA does get to lay claim to the west of the Mississippi title because of DFW but not the west coast or even west of the Rockies.