Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[usa1]

Please try to get this. This comes from the APA and the NAC.

1 Pilot data consisting of DOH, longevity, seat position, etc is exchanged between pilot groups. The order of the pilots in the data being exchanged is irrelevant.

2 Each union then takes the other unions DATA (not list) and then orders it and integrates it into their own list.

3 Each union then comes back to the table and exchanges their respective lists. They will differ from one another because of differing priorities in their methodology for integration. We, obviously, are looking for a DOH list. They're looking for a slotting-type list.

4 Then each side will try to meet in the middle with their methodology. That will fail.

5 Arbitration.

IMHO, the APA will take our data and order it in accordance to the Nicolau award and then slot us into their list. Again, IMHO, it'll be done to avoid any potential litigation.
DOH won't work on our end. It failed miserably before and it will fail again. The last few mergers have proven this.

http://www.youtube.c...hMA85pv8M?rel=0

 

[cleardirect]

man, cleardirect...
You're toxic. Have much of a family life? Kick the dog daily?
Things will improve, you'll get older and then you'll retire. Life's goes on.
Suck it up and be a man.

What is the problem?

Do I sound like an east pilot listing all of the evils that have ever happened for the last 30 years?

Will you also say suck it up to all of your buddies that talk about the $5-6-7-8-9 whatever billion that east pilots "gave away"? How every CEO has never known what they were doing and screwed the US Airways pilots. How Jerry Glass is intent on wrecking your lives. How ALPA and the company stole your pension and someone needs to go to jail and give your pension back.

Because east pilots have sacrificed so much and been here so long that agreements and arbitration don't count only majority rule should count and DOH is the gold standard and west pilots should be placed behind east pilots.

Should the east pilots suck it up? Are east pilots toxic?

 

[Pi brat]

Just one question here = WHY would/should this instrument be so crafted? What possible point exists in intentionally not defining, within the agreement, exactly how the seniority issue will be addressed?

Just and educated(?) guess, but they thought if they tried to do that then they would never get a deal. The losing side, and there will be one, would be in court the next day.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Just one question here = WHY would/should this instrument be so crafted? What possible point exists in intentionally not defining, within the agreement, how the seniority issue will be specifically addressed?

Mr. S said that it IS clearly spelled out, in the USAPA bylaws. He also detailed the process which is far more complicated than I, or, let me say, most, of the pilots understand. It's way more than just "swapping lists" and plugging in names. The thing about this MOU is that it specifies a time frame, which the US/AWE TA didn't do. Our NAC guys explained that it is very important that we be on the same contract as the AMR guys, or they may be able to paint our weak contract as the reason they should be favored in an arbitration.

All in all, I dislike a lot, but really like some of the other stuff. Plus, the pilot group will get another bite at the apple when we negotiate a JCBA, a process that the companies wanted to avoid.

I'm not trying to sell this, just explain why it works for me. It may not work for you. Vote as appropriate.

 

[Pi brat]

I went to the PHL roadshow as well. Right now, I am inclined to vote for the MOU, and here's why:

Thanks for the update Bill. I wasn't able to go to a roadshow because of family illness but a friend took my list of questions and got answers. Many of them are in your post.

I think another benefit of the MOU is that it will put all of us on the same economic footing. AWA pilot sold Nicolau on the idea that we would get the lion share of gains in a new contract and he used that against us. There is evidence out there that both sides used this merger to improve their standing.

 

[EastUS1]

I'm not trying to sell this, just explain why it works for me. It may not work for you. Vote as appropriate.

Understood, and I certainly agree that we've all got to figure this one out for ourselves.

 

[Zone5]

As long as you get yours screw everyone else right.

Last time I checked the new pay rates and DC contributions would go to everyone, East, West and 190's. By "screw everyone else", do you mean keep the West from sucking up East attrition? If so then ya, screw you.


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

Should the east pilots suck it up? Are east pilots toxic?

According to you; that'd be yes to both, which falls under the category of who cares what you interminably spout-off and incessently whine about? Grow Up!

 

[dca319]

I attended the Philly roadshow on the MOU yesterday. I suggest that if there is any way for each of you to attend, you should do so.

Much of the info that was provided cleared up my questions and confusion about the MOU.

I changed my vote to "YES".

breeze

For you to come on and state that I applaud you.
For what it's worth. Now stand by for luv and Claxon.

 

[nic4us]

Too bad that Captains on both sides have chosen the jumpseat as a weapon against each other. It used to be off limits to do such a thing. Now, I purposely avoid West jumpseat because I just don't want to deal with the BS. I'm sure plenty of West pilots do the same thing. Isn't there some way to restore the sanity here?

I think your reluctance to ride West metal is justified, but also somewhat unfounded on an over exaggerated fear of denial. I really don't think this happens much at all.

Maybe this latest denial will prompt a response from the company.

All it would take is a read file memo from Hogg or Bular stating the problem, reminding the pilots of some diversionary topic like sterile cockpit below 10k, then mentioning that discussions about hot topic issues could be misinterpreted as harassment and cause unnecessary HR claims. Also, that discussion of company related issues ( the merger) are know to be very distracting . So, the official company policy is....no talk of union or company politics/policy/affairs etc. On the flight deck.

Then a reminder that jump seat is still the captains prerogative, be polite when making your request, wear the appropriate attire, speak when spoken to, and quit being jack wagons, cause the SWA guys are really getting a laugh from our infantile behavior!

 

[nic4us]

Oh, one more thing, I do not know this SG you mention, but if I meet him, I will get his side of the story....and I am guessing you were as big an a-hole in person as you are on this thread, so he left your stupid rear in MCO!

Maybe they will send him to training...you know he gets paid for that right???



"...so he left your stupid rear in MCO!"..........."...West pilots denied getting a little payback....".
nic4us; From many, mutual observations here I'd always thought you were a person of principle regarding denials of jumpseats. This was the one thing I could always find
agreement with you on, and respect for you as a person with at least that much in the way of principles. Your latest BS here is a bit disappointing.

I probably punctuated my post incorrectly.

What I meant was "West pilots denied" to mean West pilots denied the jump seat, not West pilots denied retribution "payback".

 

[luvthe9]

For you to come on and state that I applaud you.
For what it's worth. Now stand by for luv and Claxon.

As I live and breathe. Another incarnation of AWA 320 and Move2Clt. Must be handy to have all the screen names. When you get shut down on one, out comes another. You are an unusual person JJ. Strange would be a good name for you. God Bless!

 

[luvthe9]

I probably punctuated my post incorrectly.

What I meant was "West pilots denied" to mean West pilots denied the jump seat, not West pilots denied retribution "payback".

Your pal turned down one of the nicest pilots here. You guys live up to the reputation of the castoffs of the industry. All the gate agents say your group is an odd one. Skinner wasn't happy. But you kids have no respect for the jumpseat and how you got it. You think you deserve it and demand it. It is a courtesy you abuse.

 

[dca319]

As I live and breathe. Another incarnation of AWA 320 and Move2Clt. Must be handy to have all the screen names. When you get shut down on one, out comes another. You are an unusual person JJ. Strange would be a good name for you. God Bless!

Is that how it works Courtney? Everyone who disagrees with your position you label west? Well if that's all you and Claxon have left then I have nothing to worry about with this MOU.

 

[luvthe9]

Is that how it works Courtney? Everyone who disagrees with your position you label west? Well if that's all you and Claxon have left then I have nothing to worry about with this MOU.

Your little potty mouth got you tabled for a while. Welcome back chicken boy! I checked you in my friends area. Looks like Move/U Haul got permanently hauled off to the junkyard.