Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

I was at one of the CLT meetings yesterday. I think they were deliberately trying to avoid talking about the NIC so the focus could remain on the MOU and any questions people might have regarding it. One thing that was stated without ambiguity and with the consent of all of those presenting, including the APA reps, was that if this MOU is accepted, and if there is a merger, then the Transition Agreement that currently governs the merger between EAST and WEST ceases to exist at the POR and is superseded by the new Transition Agreement that the MOU folds into. All that being said, it is the current Transition Agreement in which the NIC is found that agreement completely goes away at the POR. All agreed that nothing will be left of it, Pat included. The general feeling is that the West can sue once the new SLI is complete. They will have to sue the APA and the New American Airlines over the contract language. Driver...

All sounds reasonable to me, however, I would argue that the TA is superseded by the MTA, and not the MOU at POR.

Another point you may be missing. If the TA goes away, separate seniority list that are required by the TA are no more valid than the Nic, which is also required by the TA.

The point being, the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. That portion of the TA is complete and the status quo at LCC. Separate lists are actually less valid, and a usapa DOH list even more so.

 

[cactusboy53]

CB,

Thx for the early morning humor
Or this never furloughed could have been on the street these past years.
Did you have a point?

Btw.....25-25= ZERO
Just sayin'...

FA

First of all, borrow your kid's English text so that we can all follow your salient points.

Second, my post was based on the fact that we (under the auspices of ALPA) had completed 27 sections of a 30-something section contract. That contract mirrored the current AWA contract. The current wage offered was 3% (above current AWA rates), BUT company officers in court testimony stated that they would likely have gone up to 10-11% (above the AWA pay rates).

So my post wasn't meant to be funny in any way, shape or form. It was to point out that Piedmont's post that you would still be bitching about LOA93 wages, when you would actually would now likely be under a SECOND post merger contract (like Delta).

Frankly, that is nothing to laugh about.

 

[nic4us]

Some of the senior west might be better off with doh. I really don't see how USAPA can go in with anything other than representing 2 lists as that is what exists in the event a merger happens and a snap shot is taken. However, I can live with doh and 3 way fences as well. Wake me up when it is all done.

The current snapshot of LCC is that the Nic is the system seniority list.

You will sleep longer than Rip Van Winkle????

 

[A320 Driver]

Let's take a look at some facts. The MOU in many areas cost the West. The West is still owed 757 and 190 seats. The West has been locked out of the A330 growth, and is owed a portion of that. And, there is still the fact that the Nic is a binding arbitration between the east pilots and the West pilots, regardless of who represents them.

Anything you think you were "owed" was per the Transition Agreement. That agreement will be toast by summer by most estimates. What is in the MOU or the new Transition Agreement that makes you think you will collect anything??

 

[A320 Driver]

All sounds reasonable to me, however, I would argue that the TA is superseded by the MTA, and not the MOU at POR.

Another point you may be missing. If the TA goes away, separate seniority list that are required by the TA are no more valid than the Nic, which is also required by the TA.

The point being, the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. That portion of the TA is complete and the status quo at LCC. Separate lists are actually less valid, and a usapa DOH list even more so.

Yeah well, you are missing the biggest part of the puzzle. The NIC was never put into effect because there was not, will not and never can be a joint contract between East and West.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

MK,

Now your getting pathetic.
I CLEARLY said from a clt note taker and posted quotes.


Are you stupid or what ???

FA

Stupid is fine with me, if that's all you got.Ah yes, no ownership of malicious lies and innuendo. Just as always, when you malcontents don't get your way, you start creating seniority lies and passing them around, with nobody actually "saying" it. Did not work in the elections, won't work now.Greeter

 

[fatherabraham]

Shush yo' mouf childrens, it's fine art and the appropriate response is "ooohhh, aaaaahhh".

APA has announced relative position, the MOU stipulates conditions for the arbitrator to have relative position, and people castigate you for expecting a move afoot for relative position?

Never mind... Ooooohhhh, aaaahhhh, wow. Did you see the pay rates? (For folks that don't get displaced to a smaller plane at a different base, like Crandall told already)

Phx,

You be right Bro, I be Shushin me' mouf promptly.
Oh and btw......have ya all seen the shiny " flyin to merge" pamphlet ?
All i can say is.............Ooooohhhh, aaaahhhh, wow

FA

 

[3dtv]

The current snapshot of LCC is that the Nic is the system seniority list.

You will sleep longer than Rip Van Winkle????

Really?? What seat and aircraft are you currently filling on your "system seniority list"?

Wrong again, but consistent.

 

[nic4us]

Yeah well, you are missing the biggest part of the puzzle. The NIC was never put into effect because there was not, will not and never can be a joint contract between East and West.

There was not, will not and never can be a ratification requirement to binding arbitration.

Fortunately , there is none in the TA.

The Nic was put into effect at LCC the day NIcolau published it. The requirement of the TA (that you seem happy tooint out will be going away), that calls for separate ops til a JCBA, is not and never was a means to change the result of the arbitration.

 

[nic4us]

Really?? What seat and aircraft are you currently filling on your "system seniority list"?

Wrong again, but consistent.

I have been an A320 captain for longer than the east has had A320s.

And guess what, my bid position relative to all LCC pilots has not changed.

Now if you want to bring it up with Cleardirect or CactusBoy, they may have a different attitude, but not really, cause West F/O make damn near what an east captain does if they want to, and they certainly make more than a 190 captain.

I am very consistent. Unlike the scabs on the east who change their minds with every passing day about how best to steal from their co-workers.

 

[nevergiveup]

There was not, will not and never can be a ratification requirement to binding arbitration.

Fortunately , there is none in the TA.

The Nic was put into effect at LCC the day NIcolau published it. The requirement of the TA (that you seem happy tooint out will be going away), that calls for separate ops til a JCBA, is not and never was a means to change the result of the arbitration.

NIC is a boat in the desert. I hope I don't have to explain it.

 

[nic4us]

Anything you think you were "owed" was per the Transition Agreement. That agreement will be toast by summer by most estimates. What is in the MOU or the new Transition Agreement that makes you think you will collect anything??

All I am "owed" is a duty of fair representation by my collective bargaining agent.

Since we have had a scab union intent on stealing my seniority from me for the past 4years, I make no assumptions about the MOU or the MTA.

I am just pointing out that to date the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots. The only logical conclusion one can draw is the Nic will not be disregarded.

 

[nic4us]

NIC is a boat in the desert. I hope I don't have to explain it.

Usapa is a scab union on death row, and the Govenor ain't signing the stay.

 

[A320 Driver]

All I am "owed" is a duty of fair representation by my collective bargaining agent.

Since we have had a scab union intent on stealing my seniority from me for the past 4years, I make no assumptions about the MOU or the MTA.

I am just pointing out that to date the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots. The only logical conclusion one can draw is the Nic will not be disregarded.

You could be right...who knows? I just think it is going to be difficult to claim a share of A330 flying for instance, as Parker has repeatedly called them replacement aircraft. Time will tell. I think many of the questions we have will go unanswered for a while longer.

 

[nevergiveup]

Usapa is a scab union on death row, and the Govenor ain't signing the stay.

So you think APA will win out over USAPA.......brilliant! Give this person a cigar!