Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

I have been an A320 captain for longer than the east has had A320s.

And guess what, my bid position relative to all LCC pilots has not changed.

Now if you want to bring it up with Cleardirect or CactusBoy, they may have a different attitude, but not really, cause West F/O make damn near what an east captain does if they want to, and they certainly make more than a 190 captain.

I am very consistent. Unlike the scabs on the east who change their minds with every passing day about how best to steal from their co-workers.

So?

 

[luvthe9]

Revelation​

Ladies and Gentlemen,

No gentle words. No glib thoughts. Here it is….

Are you prepared to give up the long-fought-for language of two contracts (East and West) for another six years of a Bankruptcy Contract?

Are you prepared to give up Scope, Minimum Fleet Size and Block Hour Protections, and Change of Control Protections for a meager pay raise that doesn’t make up for the lost buying power of the last 8 years?

Are you willing to accept raises that equate to less than 4 per cent per year for the past 8 years? Is $168 an hour the industry standard wage that you deserve (especially without the 13½ percent equity stake AA pilots are getting)? Don’t you deserve an equal wage and compensation package? Actually, don’t you deserve more?

Perhaps most important – Are you concerned that we won’t have a “seat at the table” to negotiate for our future?

If you are willing to accept this far less-than-industry standard agreement, then stop reading right now and vote YES on the MOU.

If you believe that our contract, work rules, scope clause, and attrition are ours, that they have been paid for with 8 years of substandard wages, and that US Airways is not the bankrupt carrier in this merger, then you owe it to yourself and your fellow pilots to say NO TO THE MOU!!!

Are we in Section 6 negotiations with US Airways to get a contract? If we have neglected our primary obligation, which is the improvement of the wages and working conditions of our own pilots, then shame on us. We need to get on with it…NOW!

That is the table we have a seat at. If the merger comes to pass, then we have a working agreement which we can merge with the American Pilots Agreement. If we agree to the MOU, we will not have a contract to bring to the table. Right now, we have scope and other protections – If we agree to the MOU, we have NONE.

Have you noticed that the contract we are being presented keeps changing. The number of vacation days has been reduced from 35 to 31. This vaguely reminds us of the virtual contracts we have been attached to in the past – The contract that means virtually anything management wants it to mean.

Folks, the emperor has no clothes…Well, in this case, he has no castle, no army, in fact, no one is left who will tell him he has been stripped bare, tied to a tree, and left as bait for the wolves. At least we have a sword and a shield…for now.

VOTE NO ON THE MOU!!!!​

 

[Phoenix]

Phx,

You be right Bro, I be Shushin me' mouf promptly.
Oh and btw......have ya all seen the shiny " flyin to merge" pamphlet ?
All i can say is.............Ooooohhhh, aaaahhhh, wow

FA

Yes, sadly emotionalism dominates from all sides and it crowds out any attempt at objective and clinical evaluation of the fine print.

I'm offended that my dues are spent on shiny sales pamphlets for an MOU that has no ambiguity about the things we currently have and are voting to give up, yet it remains ambiguous about the new concessions (and lawyers jump in to protect their clients from speaking plainly about SLI).

Heck, with ALPA we got shiny crap every month. And AOL sent us at least four shiny pamphlets... I guess we can be grateful USAPA only sent us one! Malcontents...? No wonder, they don't have enough shiny color pamphlets

 

[traderjake]

If you believe that our contract, work rules, scope clause, and attrition are ours, that they have been paid for with 8 years of substandard wages, and that US Airways is not the bankrupt carrier in this merger, then you owe it to yourself and your fellow pilots to say NO TO THE MOU!!!

Does the American UCC know or care what we give up for the last 8 years?

Is bankrupt company now going to make us whole for what we give up in the past?

 

[cleardirect]

PAT S said in open session at the CLT meeting that a DOH list would be proffered.
I also talked to him after and he said the same thing.
No ambiguity.

What DOH list? Just the DOH or the DOH list with all of those wonderful C&R protections for PHX?

Judge silvers ruling still applies so what would the APA's LUP be for not using the Nicolau?

The company accepted the Nicolau how do they turn around and not use it?

 

[Al Legheny]

[font=Arial']Revelation[/font]​

[font=Arial']Ladies and Gentlemen,[/font]

[font=Arial']No gentle words. No glib thoughts. Here it is…. [/font]

[font=Arial']Are you prepared to give up the long-fought-for language of two contracts (East and West) for another six years of a Bankruptcy Contract?[/font]

[font=Arial']Are you prepared to give up Scope, Minimum Fleet Size and Block Hour Protections, and Change of Control Protections for a meager pay raise that doesn’t make up for the lost buying power of the last 8 years? [/font]

[font=Arial']Are you willing to accept raises that equate to less than 4 per cent per year for the past 8 years? Is $168 an hour the industry standard wage that you deserve (especially without the 13½ percent equity stake AA pilots are getting)? Don’t you deserve an equal wage and compensation package? Actually, don’t you deserve more? [/font]

[font=Arial']Perhaps most important – Are you concerned that we won’t have a “seat at the table” to negotiate for our future?[/font]

[font=Arial']If you are willing to accept this far less-than-industry standard agreement, then stop reading right now and vote YES on the MOU.[/font]

[font=Arial']If you believe that our contract, work rules, scope clause, and attrition are ours, that they have been paid for with 8 years of substandard wages, and that US Airways is not the bankrupt carrier in this merger, then you owe it to yourself and your fellow pilots to say NO TO THE MOU!!! [/font]

[font=Arial']Are we in Section 6 negotiations with US Airways to get a contract? If we have neglected our primary obligation, which is the improvement of the wages and working conditions of our own pilots, then shame on us. We need to get on with it…NOW![/font]

[font=Arial']That is the table we have a seat at. If the merger comes to pass, then we have a working agreement which we can merge with the American Pilots Agreement. If we agree to the MOU, we will not have a contract to bring to the table. Right now, we have scope and other protections – If we agree to the MOU, we have NONE.[/font]

[font=Arial']Have you noticed that the contract we are being presented keeps changing. The number of vacation days has been reduced from 35 to 31. This vaguely reminds us of the virtual contracts we have been attached to in the past – The contract that means virtually anything management wants it to mean.[/font]

[font=Arial']Folks, the emperor has no clothes…Well, in this case, he has no castle, no army, in fact, no one is left who will tell him he has been stripped bare, tied to a tree, and left as bait for the wolves. At least we have a sword and a shield…for now. [/font]

[font=Arial']VOTE [/font][font=Arial']NO [/font][font=Arial']ON THE MOU!!!![/font]​

Jeeze,

While at an USAPA office road show in CLT Dave Ciabattoni, Grievance Chairman, weighed in on the status of the 3% raise. It seems arbitrator Kasher is taking medicaiton that messes with his short term memory. Kasher admitted this in executive session.

So we have an arbitrator who can't remember what is what and he has forgotten what the difference between the 3% and and the LOA 93 grievance is.

I realy want to trust the rest of my career to that type of system where an old man with a bad memory takes forever to decide what to do. Do you all remember the large RJ grievance, and LOA 93?

Did you know that Change of Control, does not apply to E-190 pilots, or to West pilots? They get nothing from change of control.

I don't want to put my future in the hands of an old man with memory loss and I am not interested in hurting E-190 pilots or even West pilots for that matter. Isn't that what a union is all about?

 

[Phoenix]

Oh relax already. Three way relative position is pretty close to the Nic, isn't called the Nic or DOH, and is a "win" for everyone. Take a break and go out to dinner to celebrate with your wife... Maybe even a happy meal!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Does the American UCC know or care what we give up for the last 8 years?

Is bankrupt company now going to make us whole for what we give up in the past?

Obviously you don't. You and Hilary Clinton keep saying "What difference does it make"?

Last I looked, US Airways made record 637 million last year. "What difference does it make"?

Nothing, according to you. Typical former ALPA response: We should get less so they can get more.

 

[end_of_alpa]

What DOH list? Just the DOH or the DOH list with all of those wonderful C&R protections for PHX?

Judge silvers ruling still applies so what would the APA's LUP be for not using the Nicolau?

The company accepted the Nicolau how do they turn around and not use it?

You just don't read very well do you? (Hint: MOU II)

 

[nevergiveup]

What DOH list? Just the DOH or the DOH list with all of those wonderful C&R protections for PHX?

Judge silvers ruling still applies so what would the APA's LUP be for not using the Nicolau?

The company accepted the Nicolau how do they turn around and not use it?

I accepted a Christmas gift from someone and later trashed it because it was unusable.

 

[cleardirect]

You just don't read very well do you? (Hint: MOU II)

cleardirect, on 23 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:
What DOH list? Just the DOH or the DOH list with all of those wonderful C&R protections for PHX?

Judge silvers ruling still applies so what would the APA's LUP be for not using the Nicolau?

The company accepted the Nicolau how do they turn around and not use it?



I would suggest that you read a little better.

Where in the MOU does it talk about a DOH list?

Where in the MOU does it mention judge silvers ruling? An MOU can't negate a court ruling.

Where does the MOU talk about LUP's?

Where does the MOU talk about the company rejecting an accepted list?

Now would you like to answer my original questions or just STFU?

 

[cleardirect]

I accepted a Christmas gift from someone and later trashed it because it was unusable.

What is unusable is a made up unaccepted list. A list at would get the new union sued?

 

[end_of_alpa]

cleardirect, on 23 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:
What DOH list? Just the DOH or the DOH list with all of those wonderful C&R protections for PHX?

Judge silvers ruling still applies so what would the APA's LUP be for not using the Nicolau?

The company accepted the Nicolau how do they turn around and not use it?



I would suggest that you read a little better.

Where in the MOU does it talk about a DOH list?

Where in the MOU does it mention judge silvers ruling? An MOU can't negate a court ruling.

Where does the MOU talk about LUP's?

Where does the MOU talk about the company rejecting an accepted list?

Now would you like to answer my original questions or just STFU?

Never mind. Wasted breath. Go ahead and vote yes on the MOU.

 

[Piedmont1984]

CoC reminds me of Parity+1%. If you recall, that lasted nearly a whole summer. The book rates in CoC will be gone with the new JCBA. A 330 captain won't be making $325 an hour for very long. CoC book rates were never meant to be a permanent wage structure.

In the meantime, APA sits across the table from an empty USAPA chair and decides our fate for us.

 

[end_of_alpa]

cleardirect, on 23 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:
What DOH list? Just the DOH or the DOH list with all of those wonderful C&R protections for PHX?

Judge silvers ruling still applies so what would the APA's LUP be for not using the Nicolau?

The company accepted the Nicolau how do they turn around and not use it?



I would suggest that you read a little better.

Where in the MOU does it talk about a DOH list?

Where in the MOU does it mention judge silvers ruling? An MOU can't negate a court ruling.

Where does the MOU talk about LUP's?

Where does the MOU talk about the company rejecting an accepted list?

Now would you like to answer my original questions or just STFU?

You lose, just keep repeating your mantra.

End of Paragraph 4 of MOU AND:

Judgement:

Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,​

IT IS ORDERED​

​

Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.