Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

BTW, is our modern, high tech union video taping these road shows for the benefit of those who can't attend in person?

Your "high tech" union discussed that in their update to you yesterday. I am always (not!) shocked that we have pilots that read the posts here and yet do not read their own personal communications. Yes, they are making some videos that will soon go on the website (I can understand you not going to the website, but how can you not, at this juncture, fully read an NAC update?) Greeter (skipping any more NAC updates and only reading Woody's CC stuff, its the best!)

 

[end_of_alpa]

It means a whole lot. The courts seem to think so and so does Parker. You ever stop to think why the company is trying so hard to get that legal cover? Because they know without it they'll get nailed with a DFR lawsuit. They're not going to risk it and neither is the APA. The Nicolau does strike a nerve with the company and to dismiss it like we do is irresponsible.

Again, the answer is in the MOU. I thought you read it. I also see you somehow "selectively" chose what to hear from Parker. I have not seen anything that the company supports the position of the Nicolau award. Their position is neutral, first and second, USAPA presents a list, not the company.

Just saying.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Your "high tech" union discussed that in their update to you yesterday. I am always (not!) shocked that we have pilots that read the posts here and yet do not read their own personal communications. Yes, they are making some videos that will soon go on the website (I can understand you not going to the website, but how can you not, at this juncture, fully read an NAC update?) Greeter (skipping any more NAC updates and only reading Woody's CC stuff, its the best!)

Well good, I'm glad. So the union does possess the technical know how to video tape meetings. Might have been beneficial for all if they had done so previous to this MOU.

And I do read the updates, including yesterday's. But when it's been a long day flying and you get to your room late and tired - well, I just hope you find it in your heart to forgive me for my oversight.

BTW, weren't you a staunch CCC supporter at one time? Has there been a coup? Have the inmates taken over? If not, then my sincere apologies.

 

[nevergiveup]

It means a whole lot. The courts seem to think so and so does Parker. You ever stop to think why the company is trying so hard to get that legal cover? Because they know without it they'll get nailed with a DFR lawsuit. They're not going to risk it and neither is the APA. The Nicolau does strike a nerve with the company and to dismiss it like we do is irresponsible.

But as Judge Silver said, it is very unlikely that you could win.

 

[end_of_alpa]

A DOH list is not the list in effect. We are operating under two separate lists. Neither is a NIC list in effect. Two separate lists reflect reality. The question becomes how to avoid or mitigate a DFR. The PHX class has what they consider a legitimate and compelling grievance. USAPA addresses that grievance by giving them their day in court.

And remember, any legal constraints imposed by the C&B's are also 'rendered a nullity' with a new MTA.

Then why even have USAPA? You're logic makes no sense. USAPA is the only legal agent that represents the US Airways pilots. Period. Same for the APA. you may want to ask USAPA lawyers about that.
The department of labor ultimately enforces union action under LMRDA. If a union isn't going to adhere to its constitution then why even have the union? USAPA IS the only legal agent and its C&B is the document the DOL has. The only "list" USAPA has is a DOH list. Even Hummel said that! Even one at the Oct. CLT meeting heard it.

Again, Silver has established the law to date unless the ninth supersedes it some way. That IS the law.

 

[end_of_alpa]

But as Judge Silver said, it is very unlikely that you could win.

Dicta.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Like Woody stated, the Nicolau isn't in use because we're taking a long time to lose. I really doubt anyone can avoid an arbitrated award by simply delaying its implementation or declaring it null and void in an MTA.

Well evidently they did! If MOU II is ratified, you can better believe:

USAPA presents a DOH list. Ask Hummel/ the lawyers.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Then why even have USAPA? You're logic makes no sense. USAPA is the only legal agent that represents the US Airways pilots. Period. Same for the APA. you may want to ask USAPA lawyers about that.
The department of labor ultimately enforces union action under LMRDA. If a union isn't going to adhere to its constitution then why even have the union? USAPA IS the only legal agent and its C&B is the document the DOL has. The only "list" USAPA has is a DOH list. Even Hummel said that! Even one at the Oct. CLT meeting heard it.

Again, Silver has established the law to date unless the ninth supersedes it some way. That IS the law.

Gotta go. But briefly, what I am suggesting will take place during that dynamic period when USAPA is dissolved. Your point may be valid if the merger is nixxed and we continue our seniority dispute. But this new approach may have traction in the weeks ahead.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Gotta go. But briefly, what I am suggesting will take place during that dynamic period when USAPA is dissolved. Your point may be valid if the merger is nixxed and we continue our seniority dispute. But this new approach may have traction in the weeks ahead.

Then you're talking to Gary.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Unlimited on AS (basically) with the exception of flights between Hawaii and DFW/SAN/Ord etc..

HA is limited to inter-island as long as AA maintains 10 flights/day between mainland and the island.

On top of that 15% can be domestic code share. AA/LCC is unlimited of course.

Codeshare has enormous implications and very long and colorful history here at AA. It is a very bad thing for the pilots of AA from a historical perspective. remember: Codeshare is "Scope".. have you seen all the "oneworld" paint jobs out there?

So does "B" scale.

 

[mrbreeze]

I also see you somehow "selectively" chose what to hear from Parker.

dca319 seems to have a problem with his hearing.......same as in when he chose not to hear Parker state that AWA would likely have been in BK in a few months without the merger.

breeze

 

[end_of_alpa]

dca319 seems to have a problem with his hearing.......same as in when he chose not to hear Parker state that AWA would likely have been in BK in a few months without the merger.

breeze

7/20/2006
Doug Parker: What I do know for certain, because I was running the place, is that we didn't have enough money to make it through the winter of 2005-2006. WE HAD INSUFFICIENT FUNDS TO MAKE IT THROUGH! We could have possibly raised more funds...and made it through...and I'm not saying we wouldn't of...

Pilot ?: Even with loads at max capacity we didn't have cash to go through...

Parker: ABSOLUTELY NOT...NOT EVEN CLOSE!

 

[dca319]

But as Judge Silver said, it is very unlikely that you could win.

Unlikely the west could win? News flash - they already have. The merit of their case was proven. The only thing that got them was ripeness.

 

[dca319]

Again, the answer is in the MOU. I thought you read it. I also see you somehow "selectively" chose what to hear from Parker. I have not seen anything that the company supports the position of the Nicolau award. Their position is neutral, first and second, USAPA presents a list, not the company.

Just saying.

I have read the MOU and that's why I don't have the confidence that Nicolau won't be used. USAPA told us over and over again that Nicolau was all but dead because they were a new union and we saw how that turned out.

And if the arbitrators do use Nicolau, what is our recourse? There is none.

 

[dca319]

Well evidently they did! If MOU II is ratified, you can better believe:

USAPA presents a DOH list. Ask Hummel/ the lawyers.

We've already presented a list once. It was promptly returned to us.