Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Negative. Language says 2 go to AA, then one to LCC.

Even though you can't vote on our MOU vote, you know more about it than some who have already voted in favor of it.

What is the Alaska and Hawaii "cut out". I remember reading that DUI wanted unlimited code share on Alaska... Yes there is a limit to code share in general but there is a "cut out" provision for Alaska Airlines and Hawaii Airlines.. Does that mean unlimited code share on those two airlines?

How big is code share, really?

 

[AAviator]

So it only says LCC? Not LCC east?

It says "Usairways". I also cannot find any reference to the draw down provision mentioned above.

 

[dca319]

It says "Usairways". I also cannot find any reference to the draw down provision mentioned above.

That's what I figured. Our MOU doesn't distinguish between east and west pilots and refers to us as USAPA pilots. That means only one list which means Nicolau.

 

[AAviator]

Even though you can't vote on our MOU vote, you know more about it than some who have already voted in favor of it.

What is the Alaska and Hawaii "cut out". I remember reading that DUI wanted unlimited code share on Alaska... Yes there is a limit to code share in general but there is a "cut out" provision for Alaska Airlines and Hawaii Airlines.. Does that mean unlimited code share on those two airlines?

How big is code share, really?

Unlimited on AS (basically) with the exception of flights between Hawaii and DFW/SAN/Ord etc..

HA is limited to inter-island as long as AA maintains 10 flights/day between mainland and the island.

On top of that 15% can be domestic code share. AA/LCC is unlimited of course.

Codeshare has enormous implications and very long and colorful history here at AA. It is a very bad thing for the pilots of AA from a historical perspective. remember: Codeshare is "Scope".. have you seen all the "oneworld" paint jobs out there?

 

[AAviator]

That's what I figured. Our MOU doesn't distinguish between east and west pilots and refers to us as USAPA pilots. That means only one list which means Nicolau.

I agree with that sentiment, however, to be clear, for the furlough protection there are references to east and west in our MOU. I believe this to be because of the way LCC has operated to date. Everything I see implies it will be the NIC for SLI.

 

[EastUS1]

Pass...I was never in the military and I don't have a clue what you are referring to.

Sorry A320. Some was aimed as part of an intended, seperate post to dca. My bad for rushing and not editing/addressing correctly.

 

[AAviator]

I thought you guys had the language? Ours is signed by Hummel and is 15 pages.. What do you have?

 

[EastUS1]

All good points Driver. Looking at this from the outside in my concern would be whether they truly want to run a world class airline or just make another deal to make a few rich people richer. Also we all have learned from the past that airline orders firm or not can go away overnight.

Agreed.

 

[Piedmont1984]

There is no legal provision in the C&B that allows members money to go to that. USAPA is the only legal representative of the total pilot group and it does not allow for that to happen.

If it does, there will be a complaint filed with the DOL under LMRDA. Besides, as of right now Judge Silvers decision still stands if and until the appeals court hears and decides.

I do not know who speculates on this but at this juncture DOH list is the only list USAPA has to present legally. Remember, it is the West that claims there is no more "west" and there is no way the union is going to give dues money to Harper.

USAPA has already "dodged" the DFR bullet....read the MOU again which states:

"Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."

A DOH list is not the list in effect. We are operating under two separate lists. Neither is a NIC list in effect. Two separate lists reflect reality. The question becomes how to avoid or mitigate a DFR. The PHX class has what they consider a legitimate and compelling grievance. USAPA addresses that grievance by giving them their day in court.

And remember, any legal constraints imposed by the C&B's are also 'rendered a nullity' with a new MTA.

 

[Piedmont1984]

BTW, is our modern, high tech union video taping these road shows for the benefit of those who can't attend in person?

 

[dca319]

A DOH list is not the list in effect. We are operating under two separate lists. Neither is a NIC list in effect. Two separate lists reflect reality. The question becomes how to avoid or mitigate a DFR. The PHX class has what they consider a legitimate and compelling grievance. USAPA addresses that grievance by giving them their day in court.

And remember, any legal constraints imposed by the C&B's are also 'rendered a nullity' with a new MTA.

But the difference between our list and the Nicolau list is that Nicolau was accepted by the company to represent both our pilot groups.

 

[Piedmont1984]

But the difference between our list and the Nicolau list is that Nicolau was accepted by the company to represent both our pilot groups.

Until you or I can bid for Hawaii trips out of PHX, or they can bid LHR out of PHL, you are pointing out a difference without a distinction. We enter into this prospective merger with only one reality which is comprised of two separate lists.

 

[flyingskier]

But the difference between our list and the Nicolau list is that Nicolau was accepted by the company to represent both our pilot groups.

Which means nothing.

Skier

 

[dca319]

Until you or I can bid for Hawaii trips out of PHX, or they can bid LHR out of PHL, you are pointing out a difference without a distinction. We enter into this prospective merger with only one reality which is comprised of two separate lists.

Like Woody stated, the Nicolau isn't in use because we're taking a long time to lose. I really doubt anyone can avoid an arbitrated award by simply delaying its implementation or declaring it null and void in an MTA.

 

[dca319]

Which means nothing.

Skier

It means a whole lot. The courts seem to think so and so does Parker. You ever stop to think why the company is trying so hard to get that legal cover? Because they know without it they'll get nailed with a DFR lawsuit. They're not going to risk it and neither is the APA. The Nicolau does strike a nerve with the company and to dismiss it like we do is irresponsible.