Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

But they DID deliver (CLT, 2 PHL reps) a VERY favorable increase in the new MOU.

No, but they are just trying to take all credit for it.

 

[A320 Driver]

source?

Our MOU states the first 30 190's go to LCC east...

And then every subsequent delivery go to AA. We are CAPPED at 30.

 

[end_of_alpa]

No, they're just trying to take credit for it.

when the BPR minutes are released will the truth come out.

 

[dca319]

source?

Our MOU states the first 30 190's go to LCC east...

Does it state "east" specifically?

 

[dca319]

The Recall Committee is going to present more data the day after the CLT NAC presentation ends.

The MOU is the #1 priority.

And those of you on the fence will no longer have any doubts that these guys should have been ousted long ago.

 

[AAviator]

And then every subsequent delivery go to AA. We are CAPPED at 30.

Negative. Language says 2 go to AA, then one to LCC.

 

[AAviator]

Does it state "east" specifically?

I will check...

 

[dca319]

Good info. I still am reticent to think the pilot shortage, at least for the Majors, will be much of an issue.

It won't be an issue. Our retirements are going to be backfilled by the commuters. Its the commuters that are worried about next year. We have an 8 month pilot here who was a CKA at ASA and I spoke with him for a few minutes in CLT. His outgoing interview drifted toward hiring and he was told that every commuter is worried about where they'll be getting new pilots from with the required hours.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Meanwhile back at the SLI ranch, recently I've heard this idea being circulated. If a pre-nup type seniority regime is not mutually agreed to between USAPA and APA, USAPA then submits two seniority lists to be adjudicated by the M/B process. USAPA then provides funds and/or legal representation for the PHX domicile in order that they may separately and independantly pursue whatever seniority regime they deem fit - including the NIC. Thereby, USAPA fullfills its DFR obligation to the west and the west is free to pursue whatever goal under M/B which the deem appropriate. Of course, the risk for the east is that the west prevails and are granted the NIC by the M/B arbitration board. But the strategy is the risk is small and USAPA dodges the DFR bullet by paying for west attorneys.

There is no legal provision in the C&B that allows members money to go to that. USAPA is the only legal representative of the total pilot group and it does not allow for that to happen.

If it does, there will be a complaint filed with the DOL under LMRDA. Besides, as of right now Judge Silvers decision still stands if and until the appeals court hears and decides.

I do not know who speculates on this but at this juncture DOH list is the only list USAPA has to present legally. Remember, it is the West that claims there is no more "west" and there is no way the union is going to give dues money to Harper.

USAPA has already "dodged" the DFR bullet....read the MOU again which states:

"Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."

 

[767one]

All GREAT questions. I think one of their main concerns at this point is having ENOUGH pilots. How is a pilot supposed to go from 250 hours with a Commercial/Instrument to an ATP with 1500 hours to get the regional job to ultimately get hired onto mainline? One of the big advantages of this merger is the 1600 or so pilots AA has on furlough. With a pool like that, we are ahead of United and Delta. I also hope at some point that we are able to bring some of that flying that is farmed out back in house using E190s or whatever. How many E190s are on order? None! How many A320/B737s are on order between AA and us? Over 400. Plus we take delivery of 5 A330s this year, 3 next year, and the A350s come on line in four years (I think we have 22 firm orders, I can't remember). These are the things that go into my thinking. The company is in the business to make money. Converting East to E190s won't do it. We have a poison pill in effect that says if they reduce our flying they have to reduce AA flying by at least twice as much. How can they put that on paper and sign it? I think it's because they know that the flying has to remain stable or slightly higher between the two merged airlines to keep the revenue coming in they have promised everyone. There are a lot of questions and very few "sure things". But if their goal is to run a big world class airline, they CANNOT shrink their way into it. History has proven that.

All good points Driver. Looking at this from the outside in my concern would be whether they truly want to run a world class airline or just make another deal to make a few rich people richer. Also we all have learned from the past that airline orders firm or not can go away overnight. I sure hope that this deal works out for all because you all deserve something positive.

Regards,


Bob

 

[end_of_alpa]

It won't be an issue. Our retirements are going to be backfilled by the commuters. Its the commuters who are worried about next year. We have an 8 month pilot here who was a CKA at ASA and I spoke with him for a few minutes in CLT. His outgoing interview drifted toward hiring and he was told that every commuter is worried about where they'll be getting new pilots from with the required hours.

Hence my point. The majors won't have the issue.

 

[AAviator]

No... Page 4 of the MOU, point (g.) When the group 1 aircraft at the new AA reaches 31, subsequent deliveries with go 2-1, AA/US. So when there are 31 Group 1 aircraft on the "new" property, future a/c come at the rate of 2 to AA, and one to LCC.

No mention of any type of "cap".

 

[dca319]

There is no legal provision in the C&B that allows members money to go to that. USAPA is the only legal representative of the total pilot group and it does not allow for that to happen.

If it does, there will be a complaint filed with the DOL under LMRDA. Besides, as of right now Judge Silvers decision still stands if and until the appeals court hears and decides.

I do not know who speculates on this but at this juncture DOH list is the only list USAPA has to present legally. Remember, it is the West that claims there is no more "west" and there is no way the union is going to give dues money to Harper.

USAPA has already "dodged" the DFR bullet....read the MOU again which states:

"Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."

I agree with you in that you cannot separate the PHX pilot group from the whole of USAPA. One union, one pilot group.

I completely disagree with you regarding the DFR bullet. That bullet remains in the gun and its still pointed at both us and the company and, eventually, the APA. Silver was very specific regarding a LUP and made it very clear the legal jeopardy we risk moving off the Nicolau. I wouldn't dismiss the DFR or Nicolau just yet. Just because it is written on a piece of paper that it goes away doesn't mean a judge is going to agree with it. Remember that we tried that same logic and Nicolau is still here.

As Woody wrote, Nicolau isn't on property because we're taking a long time to lose.

 

[dca319]

Hence my point. The majors won't have the issue.

Hence I agree with you.

 

[dca319]

No... Page 4 of the MOU, point (g.) When the group 1 aircraft at the new AA reaches 31, subsequent deliveries with go 2-1, AA/US. So when there are 31 Group 1 aircraft on the "new" property, future a/c come at the rate of 2 to AA, and one to LCC.

No mention of any type of "cap".

So it only says LCC? Not LCC east?