Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Subject: Comments to Ted Reed​

Gentlemen,​

I just wanted to share my concern to the reputation of this Association after reading Ted Reed’s article earlier this evening. Copied below are my comments which I've e-mailed to Mr. Reed pertaining to his article. I am precluded from giving you the other side of the story at this time, but trust me on this.

"I am precluded from giving you the other side of the story..." My my,...how very convenient such noble restraint is! Umm....I mean..."...but trust me on this."...? Seriously? THAT'S the brilliant and only given riposte here? Thanks Pete and Jake. We all can use a good, hearty laugh every now and then. Sounds like it's time for some fresh T-Shirts. Frontside = "integrity matters". On the back? = "Just Trust me!"

"...but trust me on this." Sure thing...Whatever you say...Whew!

 

[Ames]

It's impossible to meet your gaze because your gaze is focused too far below and behind...while you busily kiss our ass!

No, scumbag. I can count on my fingers how many times an easthole actually looked me in the eye. You are nothing but a bunch of weak sisters. You will get what you deserve soon and I will enjoy watching your meltdown. In fact it's alreay begun. Most of you have finally realized just how irrelevant you are.

 

[EastUS1]

No, scumbag. I can count on my fingers how many times an easthole actually looked me in the eye.

Maybe "you'se" just ain't much ta' look at son?

 

[Graceson]

That's one real proud looking scab, Dan Cloud would be very happy with him!!!!

Clax, any of these Ansett Australia pilots still around? Are they members of any still exixting loosely organized social media group. Really would like to have them here to catch their spin on that moment in time...

 

[luvthe9]

As much as I would like a raise, I really agree that the MOU has lots of hole in it just begging to be exploited by the company at the expense of the pilots. The $40 million signing bonus amounts to about $11K per pilot. Wow! "Big Deal" when taken in the context of what we have sacrificed to get to this point. I am not impressed.

And, as you point out, there is WAY TOO MUCH vague language. Haven't we learned our lesson yet? The company doesn't even honor the tight language in our contract, and the vague language is ALWAYS decided by the company however they wish. "Don't like it? File a grievance. See you at the table in 8 years."

They are really hot to get us to waive Scope. If Scope is not an impediment to the merger, then why even mention it?

This MOU is nothing more than an attempt to disarm Scope with nothing more than vague returns at some future date that we may never see.

Wow someone else that gets it, very nice to see.

 

[luvthe9]

"I am precluded from giving you the other side of the story..." My my,...how very convenient such noble restraint is! Umm....I mean..."...but trust me on this."...? Seriously? THAT'S the brilliant and only given riposte here? Thanks Pete and Jake. We all can use a good, hearty laugh every now and then. Sounds like it's time for some fresh T-Shirts. Frontside = "integrity matters". On the back? = "Just Trust me!"

"...but trust me on this." Sure thing...Whatever you say...Whew!

That coming from have another drink Pete. I believe him

 

[A320 Driver]

As much as I would like a raise, I really agree that the MOU has lots of hole in it just begging to be exploited by the company at the expense of the pilots. The $40 million signing bonus amounts to about $11K per pilot. Wow! "Big Deal" when taken in the context of what we have sacrificed to get to this point. I am not impressed.

And, as you point out, there is WAY TOO MUCH vague language. Haven't we learned our lesson yet? The company doesn't even honor the tight language in our contract, and the vague language is ALWAYS decided by the company however they wish. "Don't like it? File a grievance. See you at the table in 8 years."

They are really hot to get us to waive Scope. If Scope is not an impediment to the merger, then why even mention it?

This MOU is nothing more than an attempt to disarm Scope with nothing more than vague returns at some future date that we may never see.

Returns like:
a 25% raise?
40% more vacation?
60% increase in retirement benefits?
A seat at the negotiationg table on equal footing with APA?
more clout at seniority integration negotiations/arbitration?
A fixed date (POR) for all this to kick in?
Retroactive pay?

Every contract has wiggle words but the parts that don't wiggle are the ones that mean the most to me (listed above).

Driver...

 

[Piedmont1984]

If we have leverage then I would like to hear from NYC or luv or MM exactly what that leverage is. What is our recourse or remedy? Is it any kind of job action? No - we are under an injunction. Is it a grievance? Sure, but how long and what chances of success?
Large R/J grievance, LOA93 grievance, even the 3% grievance - how long and how'd we do?

The CLT reps are recommending we vote in favor MOU II.

Those who will vote against - what exactly is your strategy? Calling those who disagree with your position weak sisters or tremblers is not a good strategy. It's called barking at the moon.

84

 

[luvthe9]

Returns like:
a 25% raise?
40% more vacation?
60% increase in retirement benefits?
A seat at the negotiationg table on equal footing with APA?
more clout at seniority integration negotiations/arbitration?
A fixed date (POR) for all this to kick in?
Retroactive pay?

Every contract has wiggle words but the parts that don't wiggle are the ones that mean the most to me (listed above).

Driver...

AND STILL THE LOWEST PAID IN THE INDUSTRY!!!!!!! I'm not against an MOU but this one needs some tweaking.

 

[PullUp]

Returns like:
a 25% raise?
40% more vacation?
60% increase in retirement benefits?
A seat at the negotiationg table on equal footing with APA?
more clout at seniority integration negotiations/arbitration?
A fixed date (POR) for all this to kick in?
Retroactive pay?

Every contract has wiggle words but the parts that don't wiggle are the ones that mean the most to me (listed above).

Driver...

Couple of points:
1. Don't we have 5000 or so pilots on property? If you divide 40M/5000, that's 8K before taxes. You're lucky to clear 5500. to spend.
2. American guys are getting 100k in stock. We get 5500.
3. Retro pay language says "for hours flown". What if you're a reserve flying 20 hrs/month? That retro paycheck isn't going to be squat.
4. Look at medical copays. Got kids? You're going to spend that 25% increase on prescription drugs.
5. No improvement in duty rigs. During section 6 negs our guys had 1:3.25. AA contract= 1 for 3.5. Back to 17-18 day months.

The lack of a significant signing bonus and the "hours flown" language bother me. The reserves won't get anywhere near the retro check as is being advertised. $5500 and a worse medical plan with higher copays bothers me too. Also, there is no mention of what the AA reserve system looks like - all I've seen is one guarantee (73 hours) for reserve. That's a pay decrease for short call guys in the short term that 20 hours of retro pay won't make up for.
I've just started researching but I am not comfortable with what I have discovered. I'll be at the roadshows to ask questions.
Cheers.

 

[dca319]

Clax, any of these Ansett Australia pilots still around? Are they members of any still exixting loosely organized social media group. Really would like to have them here to catch their spin on that moment in time...

We have two scabs actively involved in our union right now. You guys keep bringing up very old history. How do you reconcile that?

 

[Schultz]

Couple of points:
1. Don't we have 5000 or so pilots on property? If you divide 40M/5000, that's 8K before taxes. You're lucky to clear 5500. to spend.
2. American guys are getting 100k in stock. We get 5500.
3. Retro pay language says "for hours flown". What if you're a reserve flying 20 hrs/month? That retro paycheck isn't going to be squat.
4. Look at medical copays. Got kids? You're going to spend that 25% increase on prescription drugs.
5. No improvement in duty rigs. During section 6 negs our guys had 1:3.25. AA contract= 1 for 3.5. Back to 17-18 day months.

The lack of a significant signing bonus and the "hours flown" language bother me. The reserves won't get anywhere near the retro check as is being advertised. $5500 and a worse medical plan with higher copays bothers me too. Also, there is no mention of what the AA reserve system looks like - all I've seen is one guarantee (73 hours) for reserve. That's a pay decrease for short call guys in the short term that 20 hours of retro pay won't make up for.
I've just started researching but I am not comfortable with what I have discovered. I'll be at the roadshows to ask questions.
Cheers.

I asked that very question at one of the road shows about retro for the reserves. I was told the reserves will get the retro added to there 72 or 76 hours, not what they flew. (unless they went over guarantee, they get more). It was a bad choice of words for the slide show.

 

[Schultz]

Also, the BPR is going to decide how the 40 million gets divided.

 

[EastUS1]

Couple of points:
2. American guys are getting 100k in stock. We get 5500.

Well..Gee!...THAT alone, certainly seems "reasonable"....No gross disparity in treatment to be found there! Your figures merely note a 90 or so grand differential, after all. I'm also just a wee-bit confused as to how that's supposedly acceptable myself, much less cause for any grand celebration. Aren't the AMR groups the ones unfortunately suffering the bankruptcy conditions and limitations at this time? Isn't it team tempe's wish to become the acquiring party? OK then: What even slightly acceptable reason exists for the US employees to be treated as such woefully inadequate, and completely second-class citizens here?

 

[EastUS1]

I believe him

Oh me too! All I ever need to hear from anyone is the magic phrase "but trust me on this" to do so both immediately and completely! ...Well....of course I did once end up with a rather spurious title to the Brooklyn Bridge by doing that....Hmmm....