Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Yep. Anything not set-in-stone can and WILL be completely abused and generally disregraded. That is a fact and not anything open to the slightest, at ALL reasonable debate, but is rather an established reality that has been unqestionably proven over these past years. Why not at least get the language cleaned up first?

Well, it's too late now. The train has left the station, and is accelerating toward yet another wreck, IMHO. The reps were bullied into a false deadline (where have we seen THAT before), and were cleverly manipulated into a unanimous vote to submit the MOU to the membership with advice to vote "Yes."

In the process of doing that, we will once again, as a group, give away what little leverage we have (scope) for a lot of iffy promises and vague language. If, as Parker and Kirby have often said, that the east scope language can be easily overcome, then WHY was it necessary to have us waive it at all?

It's a "pig in a poke," and we will once again get a deal which could have been much better for us had we stuck to our guns.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The CLT reps are recommending we vote in favor MOU II.

Call them. See if one will tell you the story behind that. All is not as it seems, which is typical now of this union.

Those who will vote against - what exactly is your strategy? Calling those who disagree with your position weak sisters or tremblers is not a good strategy. It's called barking at the moon.

There really is no strategy. IMHO, there's no stopping it. It's hard to see the nugget of gold getting stolen when it's hidden in a pile of iron pyrite.

Yes, it does feel like barking at the moon. I'm surprised the vote doesn't close on the night of the next full moon. (It doesn't.)

 

[EastUS1]

Well, it's too late now. The train has left the station, and is accelerating toward yet another wreck, IMHO. The reps were bullied into a false deadline (where have we seen THAT before), and were cleverly manipulated into a unanimous vote to submit the MOU to the membership with advice to vote "Yes."

If, as Parker and Kirby have often said, that the east scope language can be easily overcome, then WHY was it necessary to have us waive it at all?

It's a "pig in a poke," and we will once again get a deal which could have been much better for us had we stuck to our guns.

That's all completely, if very sadly, agreed with here. Sigh! How many times have we seen this pathetic little B-Movie before? The standard cry of The Sky is Falling!, once more coupled with: They're coming for us!...Well...They might be anyway!..Best Take NO chances!...Surrender Immediately! Sigh!...Just plain disgusting....



Oh Well. Not my/our problem for much longer. Off for far better things today.

 

[Metroyet]

This is a comment left for Ted Reed. It's got CLT written all over it. I guess literacy wasn't much of a concern for HR when getting hired by us air. I'm just going to address Mutatis Retardis as Paul from now on. I have a sneaking suspicion they're one and the same. Honestly, what are the odds there are two CLT pilots this embarrassingly stupid?


PAUL 13 hours ago



Tim has it all wrong! He doesn’t know why the USair pilots have fault as long as the have for what was fair. Yes if greed is the idea why they fault against in justice upon their contract. All that has been leveled against their standard of living and the professionalizm to provide safety. I agree. But their cause has been about what they had negosiated in contracts promisses by the company believed fairness by the legle system and the idea of fairness to everyone! Now Tims argument of 10000 bonus and back pay. Will not even what these guys and women have gone thru. It may pass but ! I have not herd from one pilot who will sign! They have fault a long battle and are not now interested in capitulating. The only thing I know for sure it they look out for the safety of their paxs on their aircraft. Avg age is 57 yrs old! They have nothing to loose by fighting. So Tim you must look deeper in this fight. I would not make any bets on out come. People have structured themselfs in the past years in this business. When an American pilot or a Usair pilot says I will let the house burn after 30 years in this Business I know this as a fact. Not someone saying that will never happen. That is wrong for your investors and wrong for people looking for information. Tim my number is 443 553 1. Thats so you know I will talk you and will stand behind what I say! Have a great night

 

[dca319]

Returns like:
a 25% raise?
40% more vacation?
60% increase in retirement benefits?
A seat at the negotiationg table on equal footing with APA?
more clout at seniority integration negotiations/arbitration?
A fixed date (POR) for all this to kick in?
Retroactive pay?

Every contract has wiggle words but the parts that don't wiggle are the ones that mean the most to me (listed above).

Driver...

This MTA is only a stepping stone to a new contract. We'll be negotiating as the APA next time with a few thousand more pilots backing our negotiators. And what best of all, guys like Cleary, Ciabattoni, McKee, et al will not be involved in that to muck it up.

 

[dca319]

That's all completely, if very sadly, agreed with here. Sigh! How many times have we seen this pathetic little B-Movie before? The standard cry of The Sky is Falling!, once more coupled with: They're coming for us!...Well...They might be anyway!..Best Take NO chances!...Surrender Immediately! Sigh!...Just plain disgusting....

Oh Well. Not my/our problem for much longer. Off for far better things today.

We sure showed that company and bankruptcy judge who the boss was last time, didn't we? Full pay to the last day? All we managed to do was negotiate our LOA downward because we thought we were tough.

This merger is going through with or without us. I'd like to do it with more pay instead of waiting for a grievance to go through and, more than likely, go against us. Not worth it. We can either stand on the tracks and try to stop the train or get on the platform, board it, and enjoy the ride. We'll have a new contract, parity, and a better quality of life before the year is out and LOA 93 will be a distant memory.

 

[dca319]

Call them. See if one will tell you the story behind that. All is not as it seems, which is typical now of this union.

They've seen the futility of trying to stop this. Status quo for the next few months or a raise? Not hard - even for the dumbest of reps.

 

[Ames]

Maybe "you'se" just ain't much ta' look at son?

i'm betting you're not much to look at either.

 

[Ames]

Clax, any of these Ansett Australia pilots still around? Are they members of any still exixting loosely organized social media group. Really would like to have them here to catch their spin on that moment in time...

They are now members of the only scab union around....ucapa.

PS: Why would ucrapa allow scabs into its fold? Either your "union" honors scabs or the pilots you refer to aren't really scabs.

 

[Ames]

Wow someone else that gets it, very nice to see.

Yeah, luv, a fellow moron.

 

[EastUS1]

i'm betting you're not much to look at either.

Agreed, but then....I'm not the one here bemoaning the lack of presumably significant eye contact with other males while walking though airports....just sayin'... Umm...Is that some sort of "spartan" thing, or what?

 

[Ames]

Couple of points:
1. Don't we have 5000 or so pilots on property? If you divide 40M/5000, that's 8K before taxes. You're lucky to clear 5500. to spend.
2. American guys are getting 100k in stock. We get 5500.
3. Retro pay language says "for hours flown". What if you're a reserve flying 20 hrs/month? That retro paycheck isn't going to be squat.
4. Look at medical copays. Got kids? You're going to spend that 25% increase on prescription drugs.
5. No improvement in duty rigs. During section 6 negs our guys had 1:3.25. AA contract= 1 for 3.5. Back to 17-18 day months.

The lack of a significant signing bonus and the "hours flown" language bother me. The reserves won't get anywhere near the retro check as is being advertised. $5500 and a worse medical plan with higher copays bothers me too. Also, there is no mention of what the AA reserve system looks like - all I've seen is one guarantee (73 hours) for reserve. That's a pay decrease for short call guys in the short term that 20 hours of retro pay won't make up for.
I've just started researching but I am not comfortable with what I have discovered. I'll be at the roadshows to ask questions.
Cheers.

All of your concerns are valid. The fact is this is what we're going to get eventually. Get it now or get it later, that's the choice.

The BPR gave the company what it needed in a unanimous endorsement. That was the last use management had for them. The pilot group can vote for or against the MOU and the outcome will not effect the merger in any manner.

Usapa is now completely irrelevant.

 

[Ames]

Well..Gee!...THAT alone, certainly seems "reasonable"....No gross disparity in treatment to be found there! Your figures merely note a 90 or so grand differential, after all. I'm also just a wee-bit confused as to how that's supposedly acceptable myself, much less cause for any grand celebration. Aren't the AMR groups the ones unfortunately suffering the bankruptcy conditions and limitations at this time? Isn't it team tempe's wish to become the acquiring party? OK then: What even slightly acceptable reason exists for the US employees to be treated as such woefully inadequate, and completely second-class citizens here?

Geez. Being in bankrupcy didn't stop you eastholes from believing you were entitled in the last merger. Your hypocricy is astounding.

 

[Ames]

Oh me too! All I ever need to hear from anyone is the magic phrase "but trust me on this" to do so both immediately and completely! ...Well....of course I did once end up with a rather spurious title to the Brooklyn Bridge by doing that....Hmmm....

That said: Trust me, you will see the Nicolau list in effect shortly.

 

[Ames]

Well, it's too late now. The train has left the station, and is accelerating toward yet another wreck, IMHO. The reps were bullied into a false deadline (where have we seen THAT before), and were cleverly manipulated into a unanimous vote to submit the MOU to the membership with advice to vote "Yes."

In the process of doing that, we will once again, as a group, give away what little leverage we have (scope) for a lot of iffy promises and vague language. If, as Parker and Kirby have often said, that the east scope language can be easily overcome, then WHY was it necessary to have us waive it at all?

It's a "pig in a poke," and we will once again get a deal which could have been much better for us had we stuck to our guns.

You are truly delusional.