Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

Again, propaganda we wrote to blame others for our incompetence.

West pilot, who took recall to East.

 

[Claxon]

No they don't think that. Pilots like Jamie think that.

When you meet another airline pilot, tell them you are original west.

Do not forget to look them in the eye.

 

[EastUS1]

Did you ever notice that most west pilots will look you in the eye when passing by? Probably not because none of you will meet our gaze. Try looking us in the eye. What you will see in our eyes is us saying "kiss my ass". We have been saying it to you for nearly six years but most of you are too weak to notice.

Be fair here. Who wouldn't be reasonably terrified by such ferocious, "war"-tested "spartans", indeed "knights" who've "fought with valor in many battles", even "dire wolves" and "wizards"?..Why...just you alone are enough to give anyone severe nightmares son!

You might need to put down the bottle and/or have your medications adjusted. I've had some both enjoyable and cogenial conversations with some of your west people, who aren't all insane, by any means...well...only after first summoning up the raw courage required to make eye contact, of course.

 

[Claxon]

Be fair here. Who wouldn't be reasonably terrified by such ferocious, "war"-tested "spartans", indeed "knights" who've "fought with valor in many battles", even "dire wolves" and "wizards"?..Why...just you alone are enough to give anyone severe nightmares son!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5w_hXqqxTo

 

[EastUS1]

Well...Hmm...Seems Ames has a point. Even briefly looking into that boy's eyes IS a bit scary!

I'll now leave the ecstatic cheerleaders for an always immediate and entirely unquestioning signing on to pretty much anything, back to espousing their well-proven notions...ie....that the very first MOU that was offered months ago, one very much inferior to what's even now on the table, should have been wildly and warmly embraced in the first place!...Umm...After all; shouldn't it have been enthusiastically accepted by everyone then, as they'd so hoped would happen?

 

[Claxon]

APA, USAPA, AMR and creditors committee, the west. You can run, but you can not hide. You received their Harper, Jacob letters. Mr Horton, merger off, the west will try to stop it. Resistance is futile.

"The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it."

Rodney Dangerfield

 

[luvthe9]

You west guys can always go back down under.

That's one real proud looking scab, Dan Cloud would be very happy with him!!!!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

A fact of life with the Nicolau. Our position would not have been much different with the Nicolau in place and we would have been better off financially.

Quit PM ing me , your a WEST pilot pretending to be EAST! And thanx for the ignore !

 

[Claxon]

Regarding the arrogant video's. Hello creditors committee, AMR and APA, make your choice. Phoenix or the East Coast. Other airline pilots know they are scabs, it's your dime.

 

[3dtv]

Funny how Ted forgot to mention the on going recall election of 3 of the US Airways Pilot

Leaders.

Or how they can be sued now without immunity or paid defense from dues. They sure are getting dumber by the day.

 

[cactusboy53]

Desperate postings for desperate time Claxon/Apollo/Sumadarson? Keep clicking those ruby red shoes.

 

[nycbusdriver]

[font=Calibri']Gentlemen,[/font]



[font=Calibri']“May you live in interesting times”. It sounds like a blessing, but it is actually a curse, supposedly a Chinese curse. However, the exact origin of the phrase is unknown. The MOU contains many good things to enhance our careers – a blessing. The money is nice. But…… there are parts of the MOU that concern me – a curse.[/font]

[font=Calibri']In reading some of the emails that are circulating concerning the MOU, I find that many of my fellow USAPA brethren express what I also feel. [/font]

[font=Calibri']Why do we not gain the benefits of the MOU immediately upon ratification as do our AA brethren. [/font][font=Calibri']Why do we have to wait until the ‘effective date’. Yes, we get retroactive pay but in the meantime, we stay at our bottom feeder bankruptcy wages with a 10% DC contribution instead of 14% at AA pay rates. When will the effective date occur, June or a year later?[/font]

[font=Calibri']Vague language within the MOU is concerning. [/font][font=Calibri'] For example, paragraph 4: “It is the intent of the parties…”; “Parties further understand that it will take some period of time for those items to be implemented.”; and “each term of the MTA shall be applicable to all USAirways pilots at the earliest practicable time for each such term”. What! We need specifics, not items that can be exploited. Haven’t we been beaten enough in the past with loopholes?[/font]

[font=Calibri']Paragraph 14: Signing away scope!, as of the effective date of the POR. Why would we do that especially without a JCBA (Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement) and merged seniority list?[/font]

[font=Calibri']A $40 million signing bonus. Really?!? That is all we are worth after years of operating under a bankruptcy contract and a terminated DB plan? $40mil is insulting. [/font][font=Calibri']The AA pilots were smart enough to get their DB plan frozen. For round numbers I am guessing each one on average has $½mil. We will never get anything close but $40Mil doesn’t adequately reward us for our sacrifices. We did a lot to get our company to be in a position for this merger. Plus, the AA pilots get 13.5% equity stake in the form of unrestricted stock! We get……..?[/font]

[font=Calibri']The big hammer. We are being led to believe that if we do not approve this MOU, the merger will proceed without us. In view of our existing Scope, I do not think so!!! Even the Flight Plan for a Merger in the ‘What happens if MOU is not approved’ section offers a big hint. Our advisors say we would have an arguable grievance. The AA guys did not settle for the first MOU offered. Improvements were made. We too need to have some gonads and we don’t even need big ones. We finally have some leverage guys. [/font]

[font=Calibri']There are areas of the MOU as it applies to USAirways pilots that need IMPROVEMENT! If we are going to be onboard with this merger, we need immediate equity with our AA brethren, not some future moving date along with vague intents and earliest practicable times.[/font]

[font=Calibri']Our NAC has done a great job so far. Let’s finish with some ideas for tweaking from the rank and file.[/font]

[font=Calibri']The MOU, as it stands, receives a “no” from me.[/font]

As much as I would like a raise, I really agree that the MOU has lots of hole in it just begging to be exploited by the company at the expense of the pilots. The $40 million signing bonus amounts to about $11K per pilot. Wow! "Big Deal" when taken in the context of what we have sacrificed to get to this point. I am not impressed.

And, as you point out, there is WAY TOO MUCH vague language. Haven't we learned our lesson yet? The company doesn't even honor the tight language in our contract, and the vague language is ALWAYS decided by the company however they wish. "Don't like it? File a grievance. See you at the table in 8 years."

They are really hot to get us to waive Scope. If Scope is not an impediment to the merger, then why even mention it?

This MOU is nothing more than an attempt to disarm Scope with nothing more than vague returns at some future date that we may never see.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Did you ever notice that most west pilots will look you in the eye when passing by? Probably not because none of you will meet our gaze. Try looking us in the eye. What you will see in our eyes is us saying "kiss my ass". We have been saying it to you for nearly six years but most of you are too weak to notice.

It's impossible to meet your gaze because your gaze is focused too far below and behind...while you busily kiss our ass!

 

[traderjake]

Subject: Comments to Ted Reed​

Gentlemen,​

I just wanted to share my concern to the reputation of this Association after reading Ted Reed's article earlier this evening. Copied below are my comments which I've e-mailed to Mr. Reed pertaining to his article. If you disagree with the version which he took as the truth, I would strongly suggest that he not hear only from me. I found his email link on this site: http://www.thestreet.com/author/1101023/TedReed/all.html Once on the site, click on “Email This Author”. Hopefully he can hear from enough of us to trump those he may have spoken with and he may print a retraction. Someone may even want to mention that possibility.


Thanks for your consideration.


Pete


Dear Ted,


Referencing your article today "How US Airways Pilot Leaders Found Their Way To Unanimously Back Merger Deal", I wanted to share my professional opinion. As a Board member of the BPR and a witness to the "Closed Door" meetings pertaining to the merger which you reference, you need to know that You Have Been Had.


You were obviously contacted by a pilot (or pilots) who were supposedly "in the know" and wanted you to provide credibility to a story which may help Captain McKee and his two fellow Board members survive a grass roots election recall which was requested by over 400 Charlotte pilots that they represent. Since I'm not a Charlotte pilot or representative I don't have a dog in their recall fight. However it's extremely disconcerting that someone of your experience and stature in the reporting field could be so easily caught up in an internal union issue and provide credence to the lies and misinformation which was provided to you solely in the interest of political preservation. I'm not the only one that disagrees with Captain McKee's perspective of those events as there were three attorneys, four officers, four negotiating committee members and five other representatives who remember it differently. Unlike some of my fellow Board members who believe that their political preservation trumps the confidentiality of a Non Disclosure Agreement, I am precluded from giving you the other side of the story at this time, but trust me on this. The other side of the story does exist and you Sir, have unfortunately been played. Your credibility has been inadvertently tarnished today.

Respectfully,

Pete Dugstad

USAPA DCA Vice Chairman

 

[EastUS1]

And, as you point out, there is WAY TOO MUCH vague language. Haven't we learned our lesson yet? The company doesn't even honor the tight language in our contract, and the vague language is ALWAYS decided by the company however they wish. "Don't like it? File a grievance. See you at the table in 8 years."

This MOU is nothing more than an attempt to disarm Scope with nothing more than vague returns at some future date that we may never see.

Yep. Anything not set-in-stone can and WILL be completely abused and generally disregraded. That is a fact and not anything open to the slightest, at ALL reasonable debate, but is rather an established reality that has been unqestionably proven over these past years. Why not at least get the language cleaned up first?