Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

US Airways, pilot talks halted as union withdraws
Bloomberg News
Aug. 20, 2007 12:39 PM

US Airways Group Inc.'s talks with its pilots for a single contract have been halted by the withdrawal of one of two labor groups involved.

The so-called East pilots, who flew for the old US Airways, said they won't resume bargaining until the Tempe-based company meets their pay demands. US Airways and America West Holdings Corp. merged in September 2005, while their Air Line Pilots Association units stayed separate.

“We are not interested in engaging in contract negotiations with either the East or West pilots without the other group present,” Chief Executive Officer Doug Parker said in an Aug. 16 letter to the carrier's 4,403 pilots. “Doing so would only continue to drive a wedge between the two groups.”

A spokesman for the East pilots didn't immediately return a call seeking comment. The East pilots want their pay increased to that of former America West pilots, retroactive pay and an 8 percent “fair interest charge” on future agreements.

US Airways and the union groups met for negotiations last week. The status of planned September talks is “up in the air,” airline spokeswoman Andrea Rader said today. About 2,618 pilots are represented by the East side, and 1,785 by the West.

“That one side wants to pull out of joint negotiations is a huge disappointment not only to their pilots, but ours as well,” said Tania Bziukiewicz, a spokeswoman for the West pilots. “It does nobody any good.”

Unified contracts

US Airways is trying to shift all its labor groups to unified accords, although it can keep flying with separate pilot contracts. The airline in May offered to move all its pilots to the higher America West pay scale and add a 3 percent increase.

The proposal would mean raises of 3 percent to 17 percent for the East pilots, plus the 3 percent offered for all pilots. US Airways estimated the cost at $122 million a year.

Bziukiewicz said the East pilots' proposal would lift their pay above that of West pilots, not create parity between the two.

The East pilots in June filed suit to block an arbitrator's ruling on integrating the seniority lists from both airlines. Seniority is vital to pilots because it determines pay, schedules and the type of aircraft they can fly.

US Airways shares rose 51 cents to $26.82 at 3:43 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The stock has fallen 50 percent this year.

 

[Claxon]

How could it be then that, according to the most recent Leonidas/AOL brochure, the JNC was "within
weeks of completing a labor contract?" Look at the list of sections above; it's not as if the differences that
remained between the parties were of low importance, unless you consider Scope, Rates of Pay, Vacation,
Sick, Scheduling and Retirement to be of low importance. So is there some kind of evidence that the
Company was prepared to concede on these issues? The short answer -- NO!
The claim that there was an imminent agreement is unsubstantiated in any event; however, the only
possible way it could be true is if the JNC intended to capitulate and accept the Kirby Proposal. We have
heard loud and clear from you what you think of that document. Proponents of the Kirby Proposal are fond
of cherry-picking certain provisions contained in the proposal in an attempt to sell it, but as we have
illustrated more than once, there are incredibly onerous elements to the Kirby that should be blatantly
unacceptable to every US Airways pilot, and accepting it now will assure us a place at the bottom
of our industry for the next eight years.
Last, the authors of the Leonidas/AOL brochure tout -- more of a taunt, actually -- the magnitude of the
dollars that we will purportedly lose while we fight for a fair seniority integration. There are primarily three
points to consider. First, the NAC has made it absolutely clear that retroactive parity is a ratification issue
and that we will not back down on the matter. Second, the calculus that the brochure uses to measure the
"lost" pay assumes that the JNC would have gotten their proposed rates rather than the Kirby rates, and
the history of negotiations to date tells us that this is beyond unlikely. The difference between the Kirby
and the West Agreement, incredibly narrow as it is, is all that would remain at stake. Third, when you
consider what hangs in the balance with the seniority dispute and what that means to your paycheck under
any contract, it makes the assertions of the Leonidas/AOL pamphlet all the more nonsensical. We are on
the right path to an industry-standard contract that contains a fair seniority list based on date-of-hire
principles with reasonable conditions and restrictions designed to protect the un-merged career
expectations of both Pilot groups. The authors of the Leonidas/AOL brochure want us to change course. It
really is that simple.

 

[Claxon]

"The west fought against parity." That part is specifically a LIE. It was even recently discussed in a BPR meeting, to include communications between the ALPA MEC's. We IN FACT supported parity.

CB

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Leonidas_brochure_Issue_1.pdf

 

[Claxon]

"The west fought against parity." That part is specifically a LIE. It was even recently discussed in a BPR meeting, to include communications between the ALPA MEC's. We IN FACT supported parity.

I really don't have the time to dig up the proof. Just keep running your pie hole, it really is helping those if us that want a raise / contract.

BTW, you may only use my name IF you chose to un-shroud yourself. Otherwise you can refer to me by my monicker.

CB

davecactusboy. Read your own army of lyingitas brochure you sent out to the East pilots after your america west management pilot stole personal id information from USAirways company computers to get the addresses.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Leonidas_Brochure_Issue_2.pdf

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Maybe you could ask usa320pilot cactusdaveboy, about the west pilots support for parity. The west pilots wanted the nic in exchange for parity, more specifics to follow.

http://www.airlinefo...314#entry507314

Claxon, I have told you before we are on the same page, but let me please clarify. My only beef with our fellow pilots out West is over the seniority issue. It ends there. Cactus boy is 180 from me in that regard, but is a proven stand up union pilot doing his PHX pilots right. Our West brothers and sisters have another round (sorry, but a blank) to fire on the seniority issue, and we are all standing by with our Kevlar vests, ready and waiting. That is their right. Your constant antagonism is understood on a basic level, but right now, other than the seniority issue, we should all be on the same page. Our potential enemy will maybe be the pilots of APA. Maybe not. But you are adding nothing to this debate as of late. We all get it. We all understand the differences. I suggest you stand down just a bit and see if maybe, just maybe, PHX, CLT, PHL, and DCA have a little in common. Enough to benefit us all.Greeter

 

[Claxon]

Claxon, I have told you before we are on the same page, but let me please clarify. My only beef with our fellow pilots out West is over the seniority issue. It ends there. Cactus boy is 180 from me in that regard, but is a proven stand up union pilot doing his PHX pilots right. Our West brothers and sisters have another round (sorry, but a blank) to fire on the seniority issue, and we are all standing by with our Kevlar vests, ready and waiting. That is their right. Your constant antagonism is understood on a basic level, but right now, other than the seniority issue, we should all be on the same page. Our potential enemy will maybe be the pilots of APA. Maybe not. But you are adding nothing to this debate as of late. We all get it. We all understand the differences. I suggest you stand down just a bit and see if maybe, just maybe, PHX, CLT, PHL, and DCA have a little in common. Enough to benefit us all.Greeter

Dear former and present alpa shill,

I am a reporter, I report the truth. Cactusdave said the west supported the east parity, he lied while calling me a liar. That alpa "brothers and sisters" quote is a bunch of dung. Your fud about a west suit is so alpa like, of course they will have Koontz in the name of Harper file another legal brief, big suprise.

Now, why don't you go back to supporting a CLT recall, when you did not allow it in the final days of alpa on the east property. Stick with the facts of the debate. Your opinion is like a nose, everyone has one and they all smell.

Find one statement that I made in the last few posts that was not truthful. Truth only antagonizes liars and the inept.

 

[traderjake]

I am a reporter, I report the truth.

Where do you work and what do you do?

 

[Metroyet]

Claxon, I have told you before we are on the same page, but let me please clarify. My only beef with our fellow pilots out West is over the seniority issue. It ends there. Cactus boy is 180 from me in that regard, but is a proven stand up union pilot doing his PHX pilots right. Our West brothers and sisters have another round (sorry, but a blank) to fire on the seniority issue, and we are all standing by with our Kevlar vests, ready and waiting. That is their right. Your constant antagonism is understood on a basic level, but right now, other than the seniority issue, we should all be on the same page. Our potential enemy will maybe be the pilots of APA. Maybe not. But you are adding nothing to this debate as of late. We all get it. We all understand the differences. I suggest you stand down just a bit and see if maybe, just maybe, PHX, CLT, PHL, and DCA have a little in common. Enough to benefit us all.Greeter

"Brothers and Sisters"? HA!!!! You're going to find out shortly that your Kevlar Vest is made of Swiss Cheese. Do you really think an officially sanctioned final and binding arbitration can be summarily disregarded because you want it to be? Do you really think that 40% of the pilot group can be raped at will because they're a minority? This MOU was designed to neuter USCABA. Whatever they do is irrelevant. NIC is the only clear way forward. Anything else will be met with a deluge of lawsuits.

 

[Beancounter]

Where do you work and what do you do?

Judging from the constant truthless diarrhea that spews forth from his keyboard I should think it’s obvious………The National Inquirer.

Bean

 

[Claxon]

"Brothers and Sisters"? HA!!!! You're going to find out shortly that your Kevlar Vest is made of Swiss Cheese. Do you really think an officially sanctioned final and binding arbitration can be summarily disregarded because you want it to be? Do you really think that 40% of the pilot group can be raped at will because their a minority? This MOU was designed to neuter USCABA. Whatever they do is irrelevant. NIC is the only clear way forward. Anything else will be met with a deluge of lawsuits.

Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”

DATED this 4th day of December, 2012.

 

[Claxon]

Judging from the constant truthless diarrhea that spews forth from his keyboard I should think it’s obvious………The National Inquirer.

Bean

Be specific.

 

[Claxon]

August 30, 2007

Captain John Prater, President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
1625 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20016

Captain John McIlvenna, Chairman
America West MEC
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
Two Gateway
432 North 44th Street, Suite 340
Phoenix, AZ 85008

Dear Captains Prater and McIlvenna:

As you know, the US Airways pilots’ pay rates are at the bottom of all ALPA carriers. This is an unfortunate result of the 9/11 tragedy, which happened in US Airways' backyard and devastated the entire U.S. airline industry. For our pilots, it has taken $6.8 billion worth of concessions and nearly 2,000 fellow pilots on the street to arrive here at the new US Airways along with our fellow America West ALPA pilots.

We now find ourselves under the employ of a cash-rich company that has the ability to raise over $10 billion to pursue such things as a hostile bid for Delta Airlines. Even with such financial muscle, day after day goes by with our company allowing our pilots to struggle financially, while others prosper from our sacrifices. The end result for all ALPA pilots is a bar set so low that “Taking it Back” seems like a distant dream.

The US Airways pilots need financial relief, and there is no question that they deserve the same pay as their Union brother and sister America West pilots. All of our pilots have witnessed 18 months peel off the calendar before management finally delivered their first comprehensive economic proposal. During this long drawn-out JNC process, management time and again controlled the pace of negotiations. Throughout this process, our pilots fully supported the JNC, not only in words, but also by contributing their time and effort to make the goal of successful negotiations a reality.

It has been two long years into this merger and the US Airways MEC, supported by its pilots, has chosen a path to achieve pay parity now as the first step to an industry standard-plus contract. To deliver that message personally to management, the AAA MEC will lead the way with an informational picketing event at our corporate headquarters in Tempe , AZ on Thursday, September 6, 2007. We would greatly appreciate that our National Officers and our brother and sister AWA MEC members assist us in raising the bar now for all ALPA pilots. It will be for the good of the entire pilot group, and we could use your support.

We respectfully ask you to participate and support us for this important event. We are all ALPA pilots, and although we may disagree on how to advance our collective future, our mission—to bring the best returns to our pilot groups—remains the same.

Fraternally,

Captain Jack Stephan
US Airways MEC Chairman

cc: ALPA International Officers

 

[Walmartgreeter]

"Brothers and Sisters"? HA!!!! You're going to find out shortly that your Kevlar Vest is made of Swiss Cheese. Do you really think an officially sanctioned final and binding arbitration can be summarily disregarded because you want it to be? Do you really think that 40% of the pilot group can be raped at will because they're a minority? This MOU was designed to neuter USCABA. Whatever they do is irrelevant. NIC is the only clear way forward. Anything else will be met with a deluge of lawsuits.

Yes. and Yes. But I disagree with your characterizations.Greeter

 

[Claxon]

We all understand the differences. I suggest you stand down just a bit and see if maybe, just maybe, PHX, CLT, PHL, and DCA have a little in common. Enough to benefit us all.Greeter

You have been advocating and inciting a CLT base recall. You request the pursuit of commonality with the west and East when you are unable to quell the disturbance with members in your own CLT base. You are a hypocrite.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Dear former and present alpa shill,

I am a reporter, I report the truth. Cactusdave said the west supported the east parity, he lied while calling me a liar. That alpa "brothers and sisters" quote is a bunch of dung. Your fud about a west suit is so alpa like, of course they will have Koontz in the name of Harper file another legal brief, big suprise.

Now, why don't you go back to supporting a CLT recall, when you did not allow it in the final days of alpa on the east property. Stick with the facts of the debate. Your opinion is like a nose, everyone has one and they all smell.

Actually, the West DID support us in parity. They also had their own "McKee", a little midget blowhard. Yes, I was an ALPA rep, but my history after that, if you only knew, makes you the class clown. You are simply a blowhard with no respect for strategy or nuance.Greeter br />