Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[3dtv]

There is no ratification approval of binding arbitration.



There are not three companies to combine.

I would think the intent will be to combine two companies. The process dictated by various laws and regulations. One such law will govern seniority integration.

That means unmodified Nic, to it's terms, for the pilots of LCC.


Gettin a little nervous about that seat you stole?

You are 100% correct. Not three companies, but two. 2 that NEVER combined lists or contracts and the court (Silver) reaffirmed not required to be NIC. So either it's 2 lists with a form of DOH or maybe 3 lists but that's your only options.

And no east pilot has to steal their own job, just keeping it from being stolen.

 

[EastUS1]

Yawn!!! All this effort and bandwidth devoted to the intramural political backstabbing of USAPA opponents and proponents, which will be OBE soon enough anyway. A complete waste of time, swapping one flavor of union politician for another, kind of like arguing between Democrats and Republicans, nothing more than two sides of the same coin being repeatedly flipped. At the end of the day, it just doesn't matter, far more powerful forces end up making the real decisions, not the least of which are the rank and file pilots, not to mention the BIG money men!


seajay

Pretty much the case as I see it as well Bro....

 

[A320 Driver]

There is no ratification approval of binding arbitration.

There are not three companies to combine.

I would think the intent will be to combine two companies. The process dictated by various laws and regulations. One such law will govern seniority integration.

That means unmodified Nic, to it's terms, for the pilots of LCC.


Gettin a little nervous about that seat you stole?

There was to be a ratification vote of a joint contract serving the East and West pilot groups. There never was one. What's more, the 9th said there probably never would be one that employed the NIC. So here we are with no joint contract and there never will be one framed within the terms of the transition agreement. That was the only way the NIC could ever be used. It's too late. It's done. Over. BTW, I'd be careful how I leveled accusations about seat theft. It is East flying and West minimum fleet count that keeps you off the street.

 

[EastUS1]

All this " language " I think crafted in ways to get the outcomes the insiders have privately agreed on. The sheep will learn the " truth " when the time is right.
That's what my life experience has taught. Regardless of your confidence laden rants.

FA

Indeed sir, and none can now know exactly what "outcomes the insiders have privately agreed on."

PS: "That's what my life experience has taught." You wouldn't dare be suggesting that we've grown just a tad-bit cynical over time...?

 

[Claxon]

CLT Domicile Officer Recall Referendum

Polls are Open
The CLT Domicile Officer Recall Referendum is being conducted by electronic ballot using the telephone and Internet, through BallotPoint Election Services voting system.
Polls for this referendum are open and close at 2:00 PM ET on Friday, February 5, 2013.
All active CLT-based members in good standing, who are eligible or who may become eligible during the election process may cast a ballot. However, ballots cast by members who are inactive or in bad standing will be rejected during the election certification process. It is the member’s responsibility to maintain eligible status as defined in the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws.All members will receive a Voting Notice and Instructions in the mail. If you do not have a VIN/PIN, you MUST WAIT and follow the instructions in the notice. If you still have your VIN/PIN from previous elections, you may immediately access the BallotPoint Election Services voting system.To vote by Internet:-Go to https://www.BallotPoint.com/USAPA/. (Be sure to type the s in https.)To vote by telephone:-Call (800) 826-5530 and follow the voice prompts.If you have any questions, please click here. If you are in need of additional help, contact the USAPA Ballot Certification Committee by phone at (704)936-4576 or (877)332-3342 x4576, or by email at [email protected].
Polls close at 2:00 pm ET on February 5, 2013.
Ballot Certification Committee


To adjust your email preferences or to opt out of communications, please visit the Account Settings section of the website.

Update for January 20, 2008
Herndon II
Or

See How They Run…a meeting
Hey! It’s NOT a meeting!

As you all know we, Dave, Jim and I are loathe to comment on other Council’s business. But sometimes events just overcome our ability to refrain! Recent events in Charlotte come to mind.

Marshall, Lance and Lyle not only happen to be sitting on “ground zero,” if you will, of ALPA survival; they are also out of ideas on just what to say in the Association’s defense in the face of the enactment of the Nicolau Award.

Captain Stephan has told your Council Chairman that it was Lance’s idea to bring in the ALPA heavy hitters for a little meeting in CLT to help the Charlotte’s reps explain why they should support ALPA in the representative election which has not yet been called...maybe ALPA knows something, eh? Well, Jack didn’t exactly call it a meeting.

You see, there’s a little constitutional problem with that. It seems as though almost a couple hundred pilots have petitioned for the recall of the CLT reps to be added to the next CLT meeting which creates a problem for the boys down there. You see, by constitution, only the President of the Association or the Council Chair can call an LEC meeting.

If a “special” LEC meeting
is called it must be preceded by a “regular” LEC meeting. This is a constitutional requirement in order that the pilots’ business gets done and NOT the business of special interest groups within the Association.

So there will be no CLT LEC meeting in CLT the day of the next CLT LEC ALPA National meeting. Dave and I would be willing to call it a Special Council #41 meeting if that would give the CLT reps cover.

 

[EastUS1]

There was to be a ratification vote of a joint contract serving the East and West pilot groups. There never was one.

Such considerations are but trifling details to the most blindly devoted cultists. The "righteous" must always rant it seems. Only time will tell the tale here, as it always does.

 

[Claxon]

Leonidas Update January 14, 2013
Monday, 14 January 2013 16:49

On January 4th, Leonidas, LLC published a thank you list of its top contributors. The list was our way of recognizing those who have made significant sacrifices to preserve the arbitrated seniority award.

After we published our list, we received a significant number of contributions through the postal service with post mark dates prior to January 4th. In the interest of crediting those individuals who mailed in their contributions near the publishing date, we have removed the contribution list and will re-publish an updated contribution list in 90 days on April 11, 2013.

This window of opportunity also allows any individuals who desire to contribute to the Leonidas, LLC to be recognized accordingly.

Remember, justice is not free and without your support there would be no justice.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

 

[Claxon]

A helpful update from United pilots;

Central Air Safety

The following is from Council 12 (ORD) Safety Committee Chairman Captain Kathi Hurst.

Click Here for a chart with some taxiway changes and designations in ORD.

As you can see in the above link, almost all taxiways at ORD are being re-designated. ORD is in the process of numerous changes in STARs, SIDs and taxiway designation. These changes will be presented in almost every chart revision cycle until Nov of 2013. They will continue again in 2014.

Please use extra vigilance regarding ORD chart changes.

We will try to highlight these changes coming out as we get information. Your Safety Committee and Airport Liaison representative are active in attending ORD monthly runway safety meetings, working with numerous ATC working groups and task groups and working with other domiciles to update you on system wide changes.

As you are well aware, there is a great deal of work to do with many changes and the development and implementation of NEXTGEN.

 

[EastUS1]

I agree, it will be what it will be. How about more on the stuff we know will happen if this goes through? Pay, scope, benefits, etc. Compared to Delta some things seem worse and others better.

Bean

Methinks we're all more than a bit reduced here from the fact that AMR's in BK, and their guys/gals have/are doing the best they can within that incredibly onerous restraint...and I wont even start on my notions of what a contrived "joke"/complete-scam corporate Bk laws are of late. Our lesser bunch, by way of numbers/etc, are mostly stuck going along for the ride in yet (for the east at least) just another corporate/disgustingly "legal" contrivance. But you'se Honah...we'se jess' gots X amount of BILLIONS in liquid cash...but we'se be "bankrupt"!!!. "trust us!". Try anything even remotely approaching that level of complete and utter BS as an indivual..Sigh...I said I wouldn't even get started on that...my bad.

 

[dca319]

GROW UP! If not for your own sakes, for your passengers.

We've got guys saying Cat Piss, etc on the radio and you're telling the west to grow up? And add our jesters Claxon, luv, and MM and all you sound like is a hypocrite there Colonel.

I suggest you leave the sermon to someone else.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Now that the MOU has been released, the complete story of what happened in that meeting can be told.

First, let me remind you of how we got this MOU. The company objected to Paul DiOrio being on the NAC because Paul was demanding a contract that was industry standard. Parker and Kirby knew that if they were going to get the NAC to accept anything less, DiOrio had to go. Also, if Hummel was going to negotiate in secret with the company, both he and the company did not want DiOrio around to make demands that we be treated the same as other airlines pilots.

Hummel removed DiOrio and appointed a new NAC Chairman. Then he took over negotiations along with the new handpicked NAC Chairman in secret and brought the MOU to the Board for approval. This was never how the founders of USAPA intended this. The elected members of the BPR were supposed to give guidance to the NAC, not the other way around and the President was not supposed to be involved. Unfortunately, our founders were either part of the secret or kept out of the loop not knowing what was happening.

So now the original MOU that Gary Hummel and the NAC negotiated in secret was brought to the BPR for a vote to send it out with a recommendation by the BPR to approve it. But the BPR looked at this MOU and realized that it was a disaster with the US Airways pilots getting nothing but vague promises, low wages and a "second class status" and we all know how those promises turn out here.

So, they voted 10 to 1, with 1 west Rep abstaining to send it out to the pilots for a vote. Then they voted unanimously to recommend to the pilots that they vote to reject the MOU.

The company immediately understood that after the F/A's rejected their contract, they were about to see the same thing happen with the pilots. They were certainly aware of the charges in the press and elsewhere that they have been unable to complete the merger with the airline they already operate and so why would an investor put his faith in them for a even bigger merger?

So, rather than be humiliated with a unanimous "no" vote, they pulled the MOU and then signed a NDA so that no one could talk about it or negotiate it.

So now we get to the part that no one could make up. A recall petition was circulated demanding that the 3 CLT Reps vote to send the MOU out with a recommendation to vote for the MOU or be recalled. Who were these people?

1. The very people that have fought against USAPA and for keeping ALPA.
2. That have attempted time and time again to undermine USAPA.
3. That have worked in association with the West Pilots to force Nicolau on us and to continue to ferment problems between the two sides to eliminate the obstacle to a new contract.
4. That refused to join USAPA until fairly recently.
5. That were running our Pensions at ALPA when we lost them.
6. That were the most senior Check Airmen that would throw the rest of us under a bus just to get a contract.

These are the men that circulated a petition to recall 3 of the 11 reps that voted to send this MOU out but with a recommendation to vote "no" for this obviously substandard MOU.

The Unsecured Creditors Meeting was about to begin to debate what will happen to American Airlines. Will the Unsecured Creditors support the AMR Management that by all accounts have done a credible job in reorganizing American while under bankruptcy protection? Or will they support US Airways Management that is still mismanaging their employees from the last merger?

So, the same MOU is once again trotted out and once again the USAPA leadership, the USAPA advisors and the USAPA attorneys along with representatives from the company tell the BPR, this is the best you will get and if you vote "no," we will just continue the merger without your input.
'However, we really need you to vote for this MOU and we need you to vote unanimously for it so we can show the Unsecured Creditors that we have your full support.'

So Gary Hummel, the NAC, the advisors and the attorneys all started to explain why the BPR needed to vote for the MOU as is. They worked the room explaining the company position, giving the company line and 'channeling' Parker and Kirby. 'Vote for this or else, but by the way, the company needs our help!'

As one by one some of the reps began to speak in favor of voting to send this MOU out with a "yes" vote, Steve Crimi, Bill McKee, Dwight Ingram, Spike, and Mike Gillies realized that they had some leverage here and told Hummel, the NAC and the Advisors, the BPR and the company that unless they gave us a better deal, they would vote to recommend that the pilots vote "No" for this MOU. The debate was extremely heated. But these 5 reps fought against formidable odds. However, in the words of one of them, "They wanted something from us and we asked for something in return." That's how negotiations work.

That something was the retroactive pay and benefits beginning on February 8, 2013. In other words, if this merger goes through as planned and it goes through later this year, our pay increases will be retroactive to February 8, 2013. Every expert expects this merger to be approved and almost everyone expects it will be some time late this year or early next year, but we pilots will get a lump sum of our new salaries that are retroactive to February 8th 2013.

Do the math. That potentially could mean nearly $50,000 or more for a Group 2 Captain. That is what these 5 reps demanded for their "yes" vote and this is what the company agreed to. This is also what the recall is trying to stop.

The story I have just given you is a rough idea of what happened. I was not there to witness it. I was able to compile what happened by talking to numerous people involved in those meetings. However, everyone I talked to agreed that these 5 Reps, starting with Steve Crimi forced the company to negotiate a much better deal than they tried to force on us with the help of our leadership and our advisors.

The BPR Reps that were afraid to fight for us and had changed their minds to send out the substandard MOU with a "yes" recommendation were PHL Rep Jamie Weidner. DCA Reps Joe Stein and Pete Dugstad and the 3 PHX Reps. In other words, the usual suspects. Gary Hummel did his very best to bring us the original MOU without the retro pay along with others in USAPA leadership.

The leaders of this recall movement are lifetime members of the Chip Munn fan club and in fact Chip Munn is one of the leaders of this movement. Richard Alter is another along with Manny Lopez and Tim McGirk among others that I hope to expose in the near future. They are working hand in glove with Rob Streble to have those Reps removed as quickly as possible. Once that takes place, they hope to elect their own people that will work closely with the DCA Reps, Jamie Weidner and the PHX Reps. That has been their dream since the end of ALPA. Control the union again - work to bring the Nicolau Award to the property because "it's binding" and give the company what it needs. The "give-a-way-crowd" as they were once and forever known

After this is over, a recall of Rob Streble needs to take place. We need to have integrity once again in the Secretary-Treasurer position.

I have a demand from these recall voters. If this merger goes through and we get our retroactive pay, that you not take it since you are so willing to remove the people that brought it to you. Allow us to divide it among the pilots that vote to keep those 3 Reps in office because we will deserve it. Otherwise, you are nothing but Hypocrites!

There is a great deal more real work to come. If this merger takes place, we will need a strong leader at the table along with the APA and whatever management takes over for a final, fair and binding contract. We need the right people that will argue our seniority if arbitration is necessary to ensure a fair outcome of the seniority issue.

To make sure we have the right people there to oversee this, we need to make sure the 3 CLT Reps remain in office and make sure that Jamie Weidner never gets re-elected. I gave up on the DCA Reps years ago. They might as well be living in PHX.

If you have a friend in CLT and most of us do, please get in touch with them. Talk to him or her. Send this email and others like it. Let them know who is behind this recall movement and why. Make sure they understand what happened in those meetings, who got us the better MOU and how important it is to have people in there that are willing to fight for what they believe in and for us.

Also, if you can, please attend the NAC road shows. If you still have doubts as to what happened as I related them, by all means ask the NAC yourself. Nothing like watching them squirm...

And if you have a few extra dollars (and who does) please send it to the CLT Reps so they can get their story out there to defend themselves against this unbelievably stupid recall. Rob Streble is blocking their attempts to defend themselves.

NEXT ON DECK THE PENSION INVESTGATION, A HUGE PROBLEM FOR "GIVE IT AWAY GARY" Especially after the last court showdown! THANK A CLT REP! AND PHL minus jamie!

 

[Claxon]

We've got guys saying Cat Piss, etc on the radio and you're telling the west to grow up? And add our jesters Claxon, luv, and MM and all you sound like is a hypocrite there Colonel.

I suggest you leave the sermon to someone else.

West pilot, recalled to east, obvious. Avoid above poster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwsWXQz6lU

 

[EastUS1]

.... all you sound like is a hypocrite there Colonel.

I suggest you leave the sermon to someone else.

Ah!..So you're entirely supportive of the "bulletproof/accidents-couldn't-ever-even-conceivably-happen-to-MEEE!, AWA "Aces" infantile fantasies? Sigh! See the previously suggested "stray dogs" reference...umm..."Sir"?...Or did you ever even "serve" in so much as the Girl Scouts?..Even the Brownies perhaps? No?..Didn't much think so, as you're not seemingly the type for even that level of harsh "military" experience. I'd gently suggest leaving off the Colonel "salutation" here, as if you had even the slightest respect for any of your coworkers, or apparently anyone's service little princess. Run along back to your "spartans", "knights" and "dire wolves"..and, as it goes without saying, accident/mishap-proof "pilots" now. Any 18 year young Private on the Line I've full respect for and proudly salute in these times. You, on the other hand, are a complete and pathetic little "joke"....umm..."sir"

Option #2? = GROW UP. It's never too late for even such as yourself to at least consider doing so.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

We've got guys saying Cat Piss, etc on the radio and you're telling the west to grow up? And add our jesters Claxon, luv, and MM and all you sound like is a hypocrite there Colonel.

I suggest you leave the sermon to someone else.

Hypocrite? JESTERS? The allmighty "OZ" aka DCA319 has migrated as the airlineforums omnisient poster !MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

THE PENSION A HUGE ISSUE, GIVE IT AWAY GARY WANTS IT'S USAPA LITIGATION STOPPED! MM!