Could It Be That American Unions Are To Blame?

[TWU informer]

Different direction you bet! I also believe we have made a better choice than the other Unions in the Airline Industry. The old style of us against them is history! Working together is the only option.

[post="301289"][/post]​

Another CIO lie,

"There has NOT been an us against them approach when it comes to the TWU for well over 20 years"

We have pointed out the sell out TWU concessions over the 20 years, time and time again.

How could there have ever been an "Us against Them" approach when the concession record speaks for itself?

Do we need list the 20 years of concessions with dates to remind you again?

The 1995 contract alone with six year agreement with 6 1/2% payraise while record profits were happening in the industry was not a fantasy was it? Was that your version of "us against them"? If that was "Us against Them", I sure hate to look very far into the future, with the "working together" approach. What do you figure CIO, best guess 2 more negotiations to get to Min. Wage?

Oh that's right you and other TWU sheep do not remember the or want to debate the past.

Get out of your smoke cloud, and give me one example of "Us against Them" from the past 20 years? Hell dude, even in 1989 we voted down one tentative agreement only to have a worse one pass later on.

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the B-Scale?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the Flex Benefits?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the Longer Probation without Medical?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the Shop Repair Person?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the Pre-Funding Retirement Medical?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the loss of Lump Sum Option on Pension?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the Junior Mechanic deprived of experience recognition on weight and thrust limits?

Was it "Us against Them" when we invented the t-shirt that says "Show Me the Shared Sacrifice?

Feel free to jump in an give an example of "Us against Them" that didn't lead to a concession just like the "working together" concessions we live today?

All of that there was even a single NMB 30 day cooling off period, much less a threat of a strike, or a Presidential Emergency Board hearing.

New Direction My Ass!

Just because you put a new name on Corporate Boot Licking doesn't make it a new approach.

 

[Bob Owens]

air_guy,Sep 15 2005, 11:19 PM]
Is amazing how a bunch of nearly delusional disgruntled employees can trace every disgrace back to the TWU.

Amuse me and show me how the TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Wait maybe I can do that.

We are not here to amuse you. Nobody said that the TWU was responsible for Katrina. Now if you want to hear how the TWU is responsible for the collapse of living standards for airline workers we will show you.

By accepting consessions the TWU allowed AA to control its capacity cuts.

But the TWU gave AA concessions even when the industry was expanding to keep up with demand.

 

[Bob Owens]

This thread might make a modicum of sense if there was even one documented case of an airline CEO telling his employees that "we need to get our costs in line with AA."

[post="301280"][/post]​

I believe thats what the workers at Delta were told.

It would be interesting to see the transcripts of the UAL and USAIR BK proceedings since the concessions that they sought in BK were exactly what the TWU gave to AA.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Is amazing how a bunch of nearly delusional disgruntled employees can trace every disgrace back to the TWU. Amuse me and show me how the TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Wait maybe I can do that.
By accepting consessions the TWU allowed AA to control its capacity cuts.
By maintaining its schedule AA burned more fuel that contributed to global warming.
Global warming is responsible for hotter Atlantic waters.
Hotter Atlantic waters are responsible for Hurricanes .... therefore
The TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina ....

[post="301266"][/post]​

Well you're somewhat right...
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/fee...cout528001.html

Study Links Hurricanes to Global Warming
By Amanda Gardner

 

[air_guy]

The difference.

Your disgrace is satire and fabricated.

Our disgrace, factual and we are living it.

[post="301277"][/post]​

But neither to blame on the TWU, any other AA union or AA itself.

 

[TWU informer]

Interesting Statistics From USAToday.

 

[air_guy]

air_guy,Sep 15 2005, 11:19 PM]
Is amazing how a bunch of nearly delusional disgruntled employees can trace every disgrace back to the TWU.

Amuse me and show me how the TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Wait maybe I can do that.

We are not here to amuse you. Nobody said that the TWU was responsible for Katrina. Now if you want to hear how the TWU is responsible for the collapse of living standards for airline workers we will show you.

By accepting consessions the TWU allowed AA to control its capacity cuts.

But the TWU gave AA concessions even when the industry was expanding to keep up with demand.

[post="301330"][/post]​

Still I find amusing how a small group has hijacked the AA board going over and over the same issue, twisting whatever fact thay can find to make their flawed points across, and argue to infinity, making sure that they are the ones that 'win' the argument by posting last.

 

[Hackman]

Hijacked the board? Your are free to post anything you wish. There are many threads I don't read, you can to do the same.

If I don't like the programing, I simply change the channel....easy.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

I think they need to make a "SCAB" list with the name of every TWU/AA member on it. TWU/AA members should not be hired at any unionized carrier or employer for that matter. We are "scabs" here at AA. Look at what our TWU concessions have done to this industry,especially the mechanics! We at AA created the "B"-scale,SRP,OSM, "flex" benefits, retirement medical prefunding, 8.5 hour day,multi-year topouts,unlimited outsourcing,etc. Northwest mechanics ought to start picketing TULSA,AFW, and MCI also! It would be very interesting to see who would cross their picketline.

[post="301287"][/post]​

Glad to see you joined the club Princess. Shall we go scabbing together? Just let me know when.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Topic Title: Could It Be That American Unions Are To Blame?

In a word, NO.

Delta, which is almost completely non-union, case in point.

SW is the most heavily unionized and highest paying airline is doing very well.

So, the least unionized airline is bk, and the most unionized airline is successful.

As far as I am concerned, neither union haters nor union lovers have a case.

[post="301315"][/post]​

You guys really do need to quit using SWA as a successful union company. Even though it is union it really isn’t. You guys know this so just leave SWA out of it.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

Well you're somewhat right...
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/fee...cout528001.html

Study Links Hurricanes to Global Warming
By Amanda Gardner

[post="301346"][/post]​

Not trying to digress, but the connection isn't clear yet. What appears to have happened is that class 4 and 5 hurricanes have increased in frequency in the Atlantic, but this increase hasn't appeared in Pacific or Indian ocean hurricanes. So it isn't clear yet what is driving the increase is tied to global warming.

 

[eolesen]

Not trying to digress, but the connection isn't clear yet. What appears to have happened is that class 4 and 5 hurricanes have increased in frequency in the Atlantic, but this increase hasn't appeared in Pacific or Indian ocean hurricanes. So it isn't clear yet what is driving the increase is tied to global warming.

[post="301819"][/post]​

The increase is Bush's fault....

Saw a show on Discovery Channel a couple days back "Katrina: Anatomy of a Hurricane" which had an interesting segment on historical trends. Apparently, based on core samples of sand obtained from various places along the Gulf coast, hurricanes go thru 1500 year cycles. We're near the end of the bottom, and swinging upward, so they'll only get worse for the next 750 years....

From http://www.whoi.edu/home/about/currents_v9...hurricanes.html

In the Gulf of Mexico, where [Kam-biu Liu of Louisiana State University] has been working in back-barrier freshwater lakes, the geological evidence for hurricanes extends further back into history, though it is somewhat less precise in the storm-by-storm details. “Our records go back about 5,000 years, and we definitely see a long-term cycle,â€￾ he notes. From about 5,000 to 3,400 years ago, hurricane patterns in the Gulf Coast were relatively mild. From 3,400 to 1,000 years ago, the region endured a “hyperactiveâ€￾ period. The past 1,000 years have been relatively placid.

“The good news is that we are living in a quiet period,â€￾ Liu says. “The bad news is that if we think we have seen too many catastrophic hurricanes coming our way, we haven't seen anything yet.â€￾

So, it is entirely possible that global warming has nothing to do with the increase in Cat 4 and Cat 5 storms, and that it's simply a matter of history, and recorded history for the Gulf coast doesn't go back more than a couple hundred years.

Worse, if Liu's research is correct, we may see Cat 6 and Cat 7 storms, which currently don't even exist in the classification system.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Still I find amusing how a small group has hijacked the AA board going over and over the same issue, twisting whatever fact thay can find to make their flawed points across,  and argue to infinity, making sure that they are the ones that 'win' the argument by posting last.

[post="301373"][/post]​

The "ignore" feature is a wonderful thing. I don't use it much, as even most ofthose with whom I disagree offer worthwhile comment.

There are a couple, however.........

.

 

[local 12 proud]

get a grip people, the last ice age was around 13,000 years ago. the planet has seen numerous periods of freezing and melting and it shall again. I suppose the neanderthal was the blame for our latest round of global warming with all those camp fires, along with all those wild beast they hunted spewing methane into the atmosphere :wacko:

 

[Bob Owens]

You guys really do need to quit using SWA as a successful union company. Even though it is union it really isn’t. You guys know this so just leave SWA out of it.

[post="301781"][/post]​

Its a unionized company.

The same unions that are at SWA are at other carriers, the difference is management, not the unions.

What brings you to the conclusion that SWA is not a "union company"? Could it be simply because the conditions and relationship there do not fit into your preconcieved notions of how unions and companies can be mutually successful?