Could It Be That American Unions Are To Blame?

[High Speed Steel]

High Speed Steel,Sep 15 2005, 03:45 AM]
Bob, I respect your reply.

Since when?

But again, you are reliving the past!

No I'm not. Its the bills of today and tomorrow that are my greatest concern.

We have to move forward.

There you go sounding like management again. How can we be expected to "move forward" when our pay is going backwards?

Do we have the resolve to weather the "Perfect Storm"....???

Perfect storm? More like perfect failure. Sure you can sit back and throw out philisophical metaphores because where you live its cheap and you can sit back and live well off the sacrifices that we made.You want to move forward? Give up another 50% of your wages, that will put you at about where we are at, then the company can give all of us, M&R, FSC, Stock Clerks etc our holiday, shift, sick, IOD and maybe even a COLA. Then we will all be in the same boat. As it is now you are in the boat, but we are under it holding it up so you wont get wet!

[post="300849"][/post]​

Nice job Bob

 

[TWU informer]

It is interesting how the past matters on nearly ever event that we experience except TWU Industry Leading Concessions.

Those who fail to look at the past, repeat the same mistakes over again in the future.

Maybe this why the TWU has failed for twenty years. They refuse to look at the past, so the same mistake of trusting management is made over and over, at the expense of the pay and benefits of the dues paying member.

Of course, it could be that the TWU faithful, either do not have a memory long enough to remember the past, or the past has been secluded from the memory as survival method like an abused child does. Safe to say the majority of humans do wish to bury the past, when it is a hurtful past.

And when this hurtful past is rasied, many will go great lengths to insure it remains buried, change the subject, or just refuse to address the matter completely. Fact is, these tactics DO NOT CHANGE the past.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

American Airlines is the Walmart of the Aviation industry.

 

[air_guy]

HSS and Air-guy;

I did. In early 2001 when UAL was threatening to get the Judge to abrogate their agreement I sent out an E-mail saying that when the first contract is voided all union airline workers should walk off the job. I said that once one airline did this the rest of us were history and that we would be in a viscious cycle of paycuts and concessions.
Jim Little demanded that I retract that E-mail, I said that if he was a leader he would have been the one to send it out. If we had stood together then things would not be nearly as bad for us now. Look at those terminals people. Look at the load factors!!! If we stood together who would be moving all those people and all that frieght? If the planes and bellies were emplty it might be a different story but they are not.

The fact is that our union leaders did not believe anything that they have been preaching. The IAM was worried about their declining membership. The TWU saw this as an opportunity to increase its membership even more. The fact is they all failed because none of them stood together, unless of course you want to count how all the unions on AAs property stood together in support of the most massive concessions package in history.

By the way I was urging that we support the IAM. I'm a unionist, not a business unionist like Little and company but I will say that based on the last twenty years the TWU must go.

[post="300833"][/post]​

Sorry that is not the answer to my question. I asked what AA or its unions should had done differently to save the other airlines.... Your utopic marxist dream of everyone refusing to work pertains to all airlines and all unions and by the way is illegal.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

Quite a surreal topic. Let me see, AA cuts costs and makes marginal profits and it is somehow to blame for 2 carriers going bankrupt? Hmmmm....I am not trying to teach you how to suck eggs, but any business requires profits to sustain itself and profits are drived by a simple calc...Profits = Revenues - Costs. If AA hadn't cut costs, exactly how would this have helped the Revenue line?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Quite a surreal topic. Let me see, AA cuts costs and makes marginal profits and it is somehow to blame for 2 carriers going bankrupt? Hmmmm....I am not trying to teach you how to suck eggs, but any business requires profits to sustain itself and profits are drived by a simple calc...Profits = Revenues - Costs. If AA hadn't cut costs, exactly how would this have helped the Revenue line?

[post="301194"][/post]​

AA cut costs with the help of the twu by inpart removing AMTs from the back shops and creating the srp/osm abortion. Concessions took away benefits and pay that forced other airlines to follow. And the mad dash to run off the cliff began.

 

[air_guy]

AA cut costs with the help of the twu by inpart removing AMTs from the back shops and creating the srp/osm abortion. Concessions took away benefits and pay that forced other airlines to follow. And the mad dash to run off the cliff began.

[post="301255"][/post]​

Is amazing how a bunch of nearly delusional disgruntled employees can trace every disgrace back to the TWU. Amuse me and show me how the TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Wait maybe I can do that.
By accepting consessions the TWU allowed AA to control its capacity cuts.
By maintaining its schedule AA burned more fuel that contributed to global warming.
Global warming is responsible for hotter Atlantic waters.
Hotter Atlantic waters are responsible for Hurricanes .... therefore
The TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina ....

 

[TWU informer]

Is amazing how a bunch of nearly delusional disgruntled employees can trace every disgrace back to the TWU. Amuse me and show me how the TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina. Wait maybe I can do that.
By accepting consessions the TWU allowed AA to control its capacity cuts.
By maintaining its schedule AA burned more fuel that contributed to global warming.
Global warming is responsible for hotter Atlantic waters.
Hotter Atlantic waters are responsible for Hurricanes .... therefore
The TWU is responsible for Hurricane Katrina ....

[post="301266"][/post]​

The difference.

Your disgrace is satire and fabricated.

Our disgrace, factual and we are living it.

 

[jimntx]

This thread might make a modicum of sense if there was even one documented case of an airline CEO telling his employees that "we need to get our costs in line with AA."

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

This thread might make a modicum of sense if there was even one documented case of an airline CEO telling his employees that "we need to get our costs in line with AA."

[post="301280"][/post]​

This thread is the same eight people having the same argument over and over and over and over.

The "Ignore User" feature is a wonderful thing.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

I think they need to make a "SCAB" list with the name of every TWU/AA member on it. TWU/AA members should not be hired at any unionized carrier or employer for that matter. We are "scabs" here at AA. Look at what our TWU concessions have done to this industry,especially the mechanics! We at AA created the "B"-scale,SRP,OSM, "flex" benefits, retirement medical prefunding, 8.5 hour day,multi-year topouts,unlimited outsourcing,etc. Northwest mechanics ought to start picketing TULSA,AFW, and MCI also! It would be very interesting to see who would cross their picketline.

 

[Checking it Out]

Fantasy AmfaDave? (AKA TWU Informer)

The Unions at AA seen the changes in the industry coming and choose to change with it. If not I believe we would be in the same spot as NWA-United-Delta or the many others.

Different direction you bet! I also believe we have made a better choice than the other Unions in the Airline Industry. The old style of us against them is history! Working together is the only option.

Will we survive the next round of industry restructuring? Who knows! At least we have chosen not to sit on the sidelines and watch AA go down the tubes without a fight!

If AA pulls out a profit this Quarter and SWA and Jetblue does not! Did we make a smart choice?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Topic Title: Could It Be That American Unions Are To Blame?

In a word, NO.

Delta, which is almost completely non-union, case in point.

SW is the most heavily unionized and highest paying airline is doing very well.

So, the least unionized airline is bk, and the most unionized airline is successful.

As far as I am concerned, neither union haters nor union lovers have a case.

 

[FWAAA]

Topic Title: Could It Be That American Unions Are To Blame?

In a word, NO.

[post="301315"][/post]​

You mean you don't believe that AA's concessions caused the bankruptcies at NW and DL? B)

Seriously, I hope Dave doesn't beat himself up over this - it's not like AA's concessions led to declining revenue at all the other airlines. AA is not leading prices lower, despite what some might believe.

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry that is not the answer to my question.  I asked what AA or its unions should had done differently to save the other airlines.... Your utopic marxist dream of everyone refusing to work pertains to all airlines and all unions and by the way is illegal.

[post="301003"][/post]​

We should have rejected the concessions.

The best that USAIR and UAL could have achieved in BK was a level playing field with AA. When we took the 25% cut , in addition to all the pre-existing concessions we already had in place it cut the balls off the others.