FYI - No one on the Retiree Committee is asking for a nickel of any active TWU employee’s prefunding or prefunding match or to interfere with the distribution of the Company match to employees as required by the contract. What the Retiree Committee is asking for is that the Court not allow the Company to simply jettison its obligations to retirees leaving them with nothing. It is not asking any active employee to meet this obligation; it is asking the Company to do so.
Company match for the Medical Prefunding any word yet when
- Thread starter AMFAinMIAMI
- Start date
FYI - No one on the Retiree Committee is asking for a nickel of any active TWU employee’s prefunding or prefunding match or to interfere with the distribution of the Company match to employees as required by the contract. What the Retiree Committee is asking for is that the Court not allow the Company to simply jettison its obligations to retirees leaving them with nothing. It is not asking any active employee to meet this obligation; it is asking the Company to do so.
The Retiree Committee can ask AA to do the right thing all they want. We all know how the TWU functions, make it look like they gave it all they had, and in the end - when they are told to pound sand - enter Karl Marx - time for the wealth redistribution. With the blessing of our favorite hobbit (Jim Little) - our matching funds - will be no more.
AANOTOK
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I see the equity as being a bigger issue...
Same principles apply - what's yours, is the TWU's as well.
MCI transplant
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The Retirement Committe is dealing with AA, not the TWU! The Retirement Committe is not the TWU!
Yeah, that's where it starts....
You are correct the retiree committee is asking the company to pay the obligations and the company will use our company match and interest to do it. My question is who is looking out for the active employees? The answer is nobody. Just like always.
That is what I'm talking about.....
MCI transplant
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Oh come now! OldGuy! ------- "the company will use our match and interest to do it." ------ You don't know that!!! AA has 6+ Billion $$$ in the bank that they can draw from! They really have no business in B/K to begin with, and have only used it to pressure the Unions into making the rich richer!
MCI transplant
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Aren't you paying a Union to do that?
The point is there was nobody in court pointing out to the judge that that money was set into accounts for all active employees. We didn't get represented.
MCI transplant
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I'm repeating myself here, but arn't you paying a Union to do that?-------- And isn't it ironic that an exTWA mechanic is representing the retirees and not the TWU? -------- But than again, retirees don't pay dues!!!!
enough already
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Fear! Fear! Fear!
From twu loca 514:
Question: How does the 4.8% equity stake pay out?
Answer: Depending on instructions from the Bankruptcy Court, a combination of stock and/or cash will be provided to the TWU for distribution to members, amongst the seven classes or crafts.
Question: What makes up the 4.8% equity stake?
Answer: The stake is equivalent to 4.8% of the value of the Company when it exits bankruptcy and is calculated for all work groups based on their concessions and fairness considerations. Keep in mind that AA is intheprocessofamergerwithUSAirways. TheAmericanAirlinesportionof the total value of the merged airline is 72%, so the value the court assigns to the ‘New American Airlines’ our 4.8% would be based on 72% of the value, it is estimated that the combined value of the New American may be up to $13 billion dollars.
Also as part of the discussions with the company on receiving the 4.8% equity there was a settlement of the International 29d’s on the 757 outsourcing and medical cost increases. We agreed to settle both disputes $10M for the overcharges in medical coverage and $6.4M on the B757 outsourcing. In addition, there is a reimbursement to the locals for cost incurred in the 1113 negotiations for a total of ~$680K.
Question: If another Union or organization were elected to represent the Mechanic and Related group, would they get the entire 4.8% equity stake?
Answer: The 4.8% equity is allotted by agreement to TWU as a fund from which TWU will distribute their appropriate shares to all seven of the classes or crafts represented by TWU. Mechanic and Related, as a class or craft, will receive an appropriate share of this equity.
The responsibility of determining what that appropriate share is, must rest on TWU, since the equity agreement itself contains no formula as to how the equity is to be shared out among the seven classes or crafts.
Question: When will we get the company’s portion of the pre-funding?
Answer: The retiree medical issue is handled thru the 1114 process in bankruptcy court, currently there is a motion that AA can change retiree medical without going thru the 1114 process. This has been heard in a summary judgment hearing and Judge Lane will rule on that motion sometime in the near future. At this time AA has not filed an official 1114 motion in the court. Our position is that once the retiree medical plan is terminated our active members must receive the company match to their prefunding contributions.
Question: If another Union or organization replaces the TWU, would we still get the 4.3% pay increase when the company exits bankruptcy?
Answer: Should there be a change of representative, the New American will have a strong argument that the increase is due only to the TWU represented groups, since the increase reflected —among other things–cooperation by TWU in facilitating the merger process, something that no non-AA union can be said to have provided.
See the pay charts below under the TWU for “topped out” members hourly base pay, showing current, with the 4.3%, and then the annual raise in September.
Current 4.3% 9/12/13
AMT 28.02 29.22 30.10
OSM 22.68 23.66 24.37
Cleaner 19.68 20.53 21.15
PM Mechanic 28.02 29.22 30.10
MSP 21.16 22.07 22.73
See the pay charts below not under the TWU for “topped out” members hourly base pay, showing current, without the 4.3%, and then the annual raise in September.
Current 9/12/13
AMT 28.02 28.86
OSM 22.68 23.36
Cleaner 19.68 20.27
PM Mechanic 28.02 28.86
MSP 21.16 21.79
From twu loca 514:
Question: How does the 4.8% equity stake pay out?
Answer: Depending on instructions from the Bankruptcy Court, a combination of stock and/or cash will be provided to the TWU for distribution to members, amongst the seven classes or crafts.
Question: What makes up the 4.8% equity stake?
Answer: The stake is equivalent to 4.8% of the value of the Company when it exits bankruptcy and is calculated for all work groups based on their concessions and fairness considerations. Keep in mind that AA is intheprocessofamergerwithUSAirways. TheAmericanAirlinesportionof the total value of the merged airline is 72%, so the value the court assigns to the ‘New American Airlines’ our 4.8% would be based on 72% of the value, it is estimated that the combined value of the New American may be up to $13 billion dollars.
Also as part of the discussions with the company on receiving the 4.8% equity there was a settlement of the International 29d’s on the 757 outsourcing and medical cost increases. We agreed to settle both disputes $10M for the overcharges in medical coverage and $6.4M on the B757 outsourcing. In addition, there is a reimbursement to the locals for cost incurred in the 1113 negotiations for a total of ~$680K.
Question: If another Union or organization were elected to represent the Mechanic and Related group, would they get the entire 4.8% equity stake?
Answer: The 4.8% equity is allotted by agreement to TWU as a fund from which TWU will distribute their appropriate shares to all seven of the classes or crafts represented by TWU. Mechanic and Related, as a class or craft, will receive an appropriate share of this equity.
The responsibility of determining what that appropriate share is, must rest on TWU, since the equity agreement itself contains no formula as to how the equity is to be shared out among the seven classes or crafts.
Question: When will we get the company’s portion of the pre-funding?
Answer: The retiree medical issue is handled thru the 1114 process in bankruptcy court, currently there is a motion that AA can change retiree medical without going thru the 1114 process. This has been heard in a summary judgment hearing and Judge Lane will rule on that motion sometime in the near future. At this time AA has not filed an official 1114 motion in the court. Our position is that once the retiree medical plan is terminated our active members must receive the company match to their prefunding contributions.
Question: If another Union or organization replaces the TWU, would we still get the 4.3% pay increase when the company exits bankruptcy?
Answer: Should there be a change of representative, the New American will have a strong argument that the increase is due only to the TWU represented groups, since the increase reflected —among other things–cooperation by TWU in facilitating the merger process, something that no non-AA union can be said to have provided.
See the pay charts below under the TWU for “topped out” members hourly base pay, showing current, with the 4.3%, and then the annual raise in September.
Current 4.3% 9/12/13
AMT 28.02 29.22 30.10
OSM 22.68 23.66 24.37
Cleaner 19.68 20.53 21.15
PM Mechanic 28.02 29.22 30.10
MSP 21.16 22.07 22.73
See the pay charts below not under the TWU for “topped out” members hourly base pay, showing current, without the 4.3%, and then the annual raise in September.
Current 9/12/13
AMT 28.02 28.86
OSM 22.68 23.36
Cleaner 19.68 20.27
PM Mechanic 28.02 28.86
MSP 21.16 21.79
TWU informer
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- Nov 4, 2003
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Doesn't this whole fear mongering diatribe make the admission that as far as the TWU is concerned, the MEMBER is not the UNION? In fact just the opposite, it argues the UNION is the TWU and unless you are a member, you are nothing. What a bunch of bogus crap. I guess the TWU wants to use the company indemnification clause in lawsuits. IDIOTS Even the way it is written has twisted BS all over it.
The answer on the MOU 4.3% (3.5% for A&Ps) is pure BS. The contract is still in place, its absurd to say the the 4.3% was in exchange for the TWU kissing the companys behind when the fact is that certain things were exchanged for that 4.3%, such as "Profit Sharing" and the "Me Too". To come out and say that any of the things that could be considered positive about the deal could be lost yet all the things that are negative about the deal remain defies logic.
If anything, if there is a strong arguement anywhere as far as how a change in representation would affect the agreement it would be with the Equity clause. Groups that recieved raises prior to the BK and/or those who retained their position amongst their peers in the industry would be entitled to less of the Equity share based upon their concessions relative to their peers in the industry and "fairness". It could be argued that those groups didnt give up as much because their wages are still in line with other legacy carriers, or at least much closer than the mechanics therefore they are not entitled to as much of the equity. So it could be argued that the $460 million should not be split evenly because some members really didnt lose anything because their pay is pretty close to what their peers are getting at other legacy carriers. One has to wonder would the Union that did this to us make that arguement which is valid or try and threaten that if we leave we get nothing? The get nothing arguement has very little foundation, no one can dispute that this deal has left us far behind the industry, even the company admits that. My guess is if the TWU did try and say we get nothing there would be an injunction and nobody would get anything till it goes through court, possibly years later, but if it did end up in court I expect that the arguement would be made as far as proportionate sacrifice relative to market rates. We would probably get more, not less of the equity if it went to court.
If anything, if there is a strong arguement anywhere as far as how a change in representation would affect the agreement it would be with the Equity clause. Groups that recieved raises prior to the BK and/or those who retained their position amongst their peers in the industry would be entitled to less of the Equity share based upon their concessions relative to their peers in the industry and "fairness". It could be argued that those groups didnt give up as much because their wages are still in line with other legacy carriers, or at least much closer than the mechanics therefore they are not entitled to as much of the equity. So it could be argued that the $460 million should not be split evenly because some members really didnt lose anything because their pay is pretty close to what their peers are getting at other legacy carriers. One has to wonder would the Union that did this to us make that arguement which is valid or try and threaten that if we leave we get nothing? The get nothing arguement has very little foundation, no one can dispute that this deal has left us far behind the industry, even the company admits that. My guess is if the TWU did try and say we get nothing there would be an injunction and nobody would get anything till it goes through court, possibly years later, but if it did end up in court I expect that the arguement would be made as far as proportionate sacrifice relative to market rates. We would probably get more, not less of the equity if it went to court.
