IAM dl 142 caught in another lie?

[brown]

Once again you dodge like the rest of the ibters, what is a matter, Andy not answering the phones?

Bottom line is you know I am right.

Keep up the attacks and insults, I guess the mafia influence is alive and well in ibt land.

Guess your time in the field did not wisen you up.

Actually Tiny, I haven't been in the field. You see when you work a three day work week you find out that life is grand. Please put the computer away and try it

Did I get you stumbled? No comeback on our little discussion? Come on man I am going to turn this over to my 11 year old.

Ever feel like you are alone on this board? www.wallmartjobs.com

 

[Snafu]

Kinda like how you have a ups box smasher negotiating oh wait, the company told you to kiss off your AMT and related contract?

How much dues money do you pay Andy?

Sorry in 142 they are GCs and the members voted, their made their choice, but hey since when do any of you ibters let the truth get in the way of your rants?

You actually make this way too easy.

And robbed, guess you did not read your CBAs before you voted on them?

The membership approves, not the leadership.

And Snafu, please show me how $16 and change for a stock clerks is the same pay rate as $25 an hour for a AMT. Fuzzy math?

Look, you said "And since NWA imposed new terms, the AMTs were removed from the pushbakcs, which makes perfect business sense, no need to pay an AMT $30 to be a tug slug." And I say, there's no reason to pay a stock clerk that close to a licensed mechanic.

Fuzzy math?? No math involved......reality, common sense, the way it should be. Stock clerk responsibilities do NOT even out with a licensed mechanic's responsibilities.

BTW, you're comparing UPS cargo to passenger carriers. In my mind's eye, I see the comparison as a Granny Smith Apple to a Red Delicious Apple. Passenger carriers haul cargo of many forms......boxes, mail, and yes, passengers.

 

[awausairtech]

Look, you said "And since NWA imposed new terms, the AMTs were removed from the pushbakcs, which makes perfect business sense, no need to pay an AMT $30 to be a tug slug." And I say, there's no reason to pay a stock clerk that close to a licensed mechanic.

Fuzzy math?? No math involved......reality, common sense, the way it should be. Stock clerk responsibilities do NOT even out with a licensed mechanic's responsibilities.

BTW, you're comparing UPS cargo to passenger carriers. In my mind's eye, I see the comparison as a Granny Smith Apple to a Red Delicious Apple. Passenger carriers haul cargo of many forms......boxes, mail, and yes, passengers.

SNAFU LOOK WHAT YOU SAID AND TO WHO???( reality, common sense)

 

[700AW]

awatech... WAZZZUPPPPP my brother, me thinks UW must have got caught on his daddy's computer and was sent to bed without his dinner.
what he doesn't relize is that when that amt tug job got slashed, regardless of 30 bucks an hour , is that it was cut from the rank and file.. so when the tug drivers are furloughed, who makes up the dues... thats right, the ones left working...oh wait, they are on strike and it looks like the IAM is going to get busted and broke, that is a union i want for the " NEW U"

his beef with the ibt about not caring about the gse and plant(he does not know that we do not have plant, but the postions spelled out that might otherwise be called plant)not being paid the same as amt's flies in his face when he says defends the IAM for the lousy concession contract is that the rank and file voted to pass it, therefore the IAM has no blame for it being accepted. With that reasoning it would show that the HP gse's and plant voted to accept the CBA, therfore how can the IBT be held responsible for not getting them the same pay???? I know it is to confusing for a simple mind to understand...

Still no one has disputed the allegation in the letter in the post being wrong, some said they had been hacked, but , alas no answer just more shifting the blame

 

[robbedagain]

Kinda like how you have a ups box smasher negotiating oh wait, the company told you to kiss off your AMT and related contract?

How much dues money do you pay Andy?

Sorry in 142 they are GCs and the members voted, their made their choice, but hey since when do any of you ibters let the truth get in the way of your rants?

You actually make this way too easy.

And robbed, guess you did not read your CBAs before you voted on them?

The membership approves, not the leadership.

And Snafu, please show me how $16 and change for a stock clerks is the same pay rate as $25 an hour for a AMT. Fuzzy math?

:ast time I checked, the iam in PHL PIT CLT DCA BDL and PVD all voted FOR IT and the IAM knowing full well DECLASSIFIED their BROTHERS and SISTERS in the outback steak house cities then had the BALLS to RAISE the DUES. PATHETIC MAN PATHETIC
Wonder how it would have been if the IAM ACTUALLY was a UNION that would ACTUALLY look out for their members? Now we have heard from some of our coworkers in PHL that they havent even heard of anything the IAM has done for FLEET. They didnt even know about the TRANSITION DEAL. What a pathetic union the IAM is :down: :down: :down:

 

[700UW]

Hate to tell you this but the membership is the IAM, your fellow brothers and sister and maybe yourself voted of the CBAs and did not have the gonads to take the company on.

When is a good time to accept responsibility?

 

[robbedagain]

hate to burst your bubbles too but last time I checked, we made calls to the out cities and all of them advised us to vote it down and last time we checked, it was turned down by them and us but not in the hubs nor bdl pvd, which were ADDED to the CLASS I cities JUST TO GET THAT so called CONTRACT thru. Yeah the UNION REP EVEN TOLD US THAT when the goons came to town for their union pony show I take responsibility for my own actions and I have no hard feelings about turning down all propsals that got sent to us and voting yes for a strike each time. When are you going to take the responsibility and when will you acknowledge that the IAM sold FLEET OUT and slept with US mgmt?

 

[brown]

Hate to tell you this but the membership is the IAM, your fellow brothers and sister and maybe yourself voted of the CBAs and did not have the gonads to take the company on.

When is a good time to accept responsibility?

Should not have come to the membership for a vote TWICE!!!

Hey been reading all your fan mail?

 

[Snafu]

700UW Posted Today, 06:56 PM
Hate to tell you this but the membership is the IAM, your fellow brothers and sister and maybe yourself voted of the CBAs and did not have the gonads to take the company on.

When is a good time to accept responsibility?

Should not have come to the membership for a vote TWICE!!!

Hey been reading all your fan mail?

One vote per "nad" only!! I'm even crackin' myself up with that one.

 

[scot]

And if it is about US why did you bring up NWA?
Why did the ibt try to scab at Boeing?
Why did the ibt scab at Nation Air?
Why did the ibt organized scabs at CO?

And if its about US, why did you bring all of these up?
Lets keep things relevant to the discussion on all posts or not at all, ok?

 

[700UW]

Should not have come to the membership for a vote TWICE!!!

Hey been reading all your fan mail?

Once again you are posting wrong information, Fleet Service never ever voted twice on any concessions.

Don't let the facts get in your way!

 

[brown]

Once again you are posting wrong information, Fleet Service never ever voted twice on any concessions.

Don't let the facts get in your way!

That is all you can come up with?? Your running out of material
Read the above post, shame on you! Anyway you know exactly what I was refering to. I believe arguing with you is like asking a politician a question. If it is pouring rain and snow outside you would argue "yeah but up above those clouds and snow it is blue sky and sunny, therefore it is sunny outside" then you would bring out a dumb comment like "but don't let the facts get in your way"

It has become amuzing that you would stand by this scab union as they shove you guys off the contract. Have you noticed your opinions different than others 99 percent of the time on this board. Take a look at the guys standing up for the IBT, they are actually in the union and love it. Where are all the IAMers?

Anyway I am done with ya, I will help others out with relevant info on this board.

 

[700UW]

Are you talking about the ibt again, lookie here, scab history of the ibt.

Boeing Machinists Strike, 1948
HistoryLink.org Essay 2283
Printer-Friendly Format

On April 22, 1948, the Aeronautical Machinists Union, IAM District Lodge 751, struck the Boeing Company. William Allen was then president of Boeing. For the Machinists the issues were preserving longstanding seniority rules that the company wanted to scrap, and achieving a 10 cent per hour raise for all categories of labor. The strike was characterized by the unusual occurrence of another union, Dave Beck's Teamsters, collaborating with the company to defeat the machinists union. On September 13, 1948, the Machinists returned to work without a victory, but in the subsequent NLRB-supervised election they soundly defeated the Teamsters.

New Era, New Manager

On September 5, 1945, William Allen, a longtime attorney at the Boeing Company, assumed the presidency of the aircraft company. Almost immediately, massive postwar layoffs began. Allen brought a different labor relations philosophy to the company -- as Boeing employees would find out before the new decade began.

1947 Contract Negotiations

When contract negotiations began in January 1947, it became clear that the Boeing Company wanted to turn back the clock on seniority provisions that had been negotiated as far back as 1937. For example, the company wanted 10 percent of the bargaining unit to be exempt from seniority; it wanted blanket disqualification of women from open jobs if, in the Boeing Company's opinion, the job required a man; and it wanted the elimination of plant-wide seniority. The Machinists' union wanted to protect seniority and to attain a 10 cents per hour raise for all labor grades.

Formal negotiations opened on March 16, 1947, with the 1946 contract "in full force and effect." By April, the Machinists' Union accused the Boeing Company of not negotiating in good faith and filed strike notice (a 30 day cooling off period was required.)

On May 10, 1947, the union held a General Membership Meeting to discuss the situation. On May 24, 1947, the union rejected the Boeing Company's final offer and authorized a strike. From June to December 1947, the company and the union negotiated only sporadically.

Boeing Revises Its Proposal

The Boeing Company submitted a revised proposal on January 6, 1948 and negotiations were intensive for about 90 days. At mid-March 15, the Machinists' Union offered to submit unresolved articles to arbitration. The Boeing Company demanded the right of veto in the choice of arbiters and demanded to submit the entire contract to arbitration. The Machinists' Union refused those conditions. On March 26, 1948, under provisions of the new Taft-Hartley law, the NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) held an election to determine if the union was authorized to negotiate a union shop. The vote was a resounding 12,000 YES to 800 NO.

April Deadlines Set

On April 13, 1948, the Machinists' Union established April 16 as the deadline for choice of arbiters. The Boeing Company refused to budge. So, on April 20, the Machinists' Union District Council and 320 shop stewards voted to strike at 12.30 a.m., April 22, 1948. The Machinists' Union District Council met again on April 21 to review the circumstances. One report tells of some of the reaction:

"Grand Lodge Representative Cotton addressed this meeting and cautioned the members as to possible consequences of such strike action, reminding them of their weak strategic position, and informing them that the advice of the Grand Lodge (the national union) was to stay on the job. However, emotions were running high and he was booed from the platform."
At the prescribed time on April 22, 1948, the Machinists' Union members laid down their tools and struck the Boeing Company. By April 28, the national union, International Association of Machinists, granted strike sanction.

Dave Beck's Not-So-Friendly Intervention - Local 451 Formed

On May 28, 1948, Dave Beck, president of Joint Council 28 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, announced that Teamsters would seek jurisdiction at the Boeing Company. At this time, the IAM was not affiliated with the American Federation of Labor (AFL), having disaffiliated in 1945 over the failure of the AFL to settle a jurisdictional dispute between the IAM and the United Brotherhood of Carpenters.

Beck's raid was intended to capture all of Machinists' Union 751 membership. He organized Aeronautical Workers and Warehousemen Helpers Union Local 451. He opened a hiring hall to recruit strike breakers for Boeing. In the words of Sam Bassett, an attorney on the Teamsters' staff during 1948 (and a founder of the oldest labor law firm in Seattle), "I am sure that Mr. Allen will not deny that he came to Dave Beck's office and requested him to assist in breaking the strike of the Aero Mechanics' Union."

Beck and Boeing recruited strikebreakers and scabs through most of the 1948 strike period. (Note: The term strikebreaker is used to mean a person newly hired during a strike; a scab is an employee who crosses a picket line set up by co-workers.)

NLRB Acts

In June 1948, the National Labor Relations Board requested District Court to grant an injunction requiring the Boeing Company to bargain. The court refused. By late July, it was becoming difficult for the Machinists' Union to remain on strike. The Boeing Company refused to bargain. The Boeing Company, with Beck and the Teamsters, was recruiting strikebreakers and some members are becoming scabs. On July 20, the NLRB ordered the Boeing Company "to cease and desist from refusing to bargain with Lodge 751" and to reinstate "all employees who went on strike on April 22, 1948, without prejudice."

In August, William Allen and the Boeing Company announced their intention both to ignore the NLRB and to carry the case to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Boeing Company defied the NLRB until September.

Machinists End Strike

On September 13, 1948, Machinists' Union members went back to work for the following reasons:


They were concerned about the Teamsters Local 451.

the cost of the strike had gone over $2 million.

About a third of the original 14,000 members had defected.

The Boeing Company continued to refuse to bargain.

The Boeing Company and Beck and the Teamsters continued to recruit strikers.

The provisions of the new Taft-Hartley Act made the strike more difficult to win.
The Boeing Company took the workers back because it was accruing a large financial burden with a fine of $172,000 per day from the NLRB reinstatement order, and, probably, most importantly, high military authorities wanted no further delay in production of the B50 because of Cold War pressures.

This set the stage for the NLRB election between Machinists' Union District Lodge 751, International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 451, and the Taft-Hartley required "No Union." The International Association of Machinists, District Lodge 751's national union, was outside the AFL and had been since 1945. In the minds of other AFL affiliates that made IAM local unions the same as renegade unions and so-called fair game for raiding. Though some AFL and CIO unions supported District Lodge 751, the powerful Seattle Central Labor Council threw its support behind William Allan's "labor statesman" Dave Beck and Local 451.

The NLRB set the election for November 1, 1949. Despite the help of AFL president William Green, Beck's Teamsters lost that election. District Lodge 751 received 8,107 votes; the Teamsters Local 451 received 4,127 votes, and the Taft-Hartley "No union" received a mere 401 votes.

Here is more:

The Longest Canadian Airline Labor Dispute is On!

At 10:30 or so on the morning of November 19th,1991, we were told at a meeting scheduled for negotiations that we'd been locked out. In fact, the people walking the picket line knew before those of us in the meeting did!

The company thought we'd crumble, that the flight attendants and pursers, who were young and inexperienced in the labor movement, would cross their own picket lines in droves.

We lasted 16 months, weathering 2 Canadian winters, being followed home by company paid goons, having our phones tapped (illegally), defying police who were too busy harassing us to bother with the real criminals in Toronto, and a government that was too busy trying to bury a damning Safety Review on Nationair than it was/is about the safety of the airline industry in Canada.

A sampling of the players?... traitors in our midst, management puppets too stupid to know better (Hi Val!), company moles, scab unions, the mediator who solved the Oka Native crisis in Quebec, and other flight attendants who suddenly thought they knew what was best for everyone, after years of complacency and flying to exotic locales for extended periods of time while we were in negotiations

Oy vay, what an education!

I had some cop from Peel Regional Police (Bernie) intimate (accent on the last syllable there) that he'd use his gun on me if I repeated something he told me... wish I could remember what it was so I could tell you!

We learned that the Prime Minister of Canada (both past and present) are/were in bed with the President of Nationair. A personal letter I sent to Prime Minister Jean Chretien, was forwarded to the President of Nationair....now up on fraud charges.

Kim Campbell, who at the time was the Minister of Defense, didn't seem to see a problem allowing our military and their families fly in and out of Miltary airbases in Germany on aircraft of dubious integrity with at least one scab flight attendant with an even more dubious background. She was arrested on an INTERPOL warrant for heroin smuggling.

In the absence of federal anti-scab legislation, Nationairs' goons harassed, assaulted and intimidated picketters. Nationair's chief of security was charged with assault after punching a locked-out flight attendant. One scab was arrested for pulling a shotgun on picketers in Mirabel Airport.

Our Mediator was Judge Gold, was "famous" at that time as the guy in Canada that could solve disputes with Canada Post and the "Oka Crisis" (which involved Natives in Quebec upset about people building a golf course on their burial land so they put up blockades to protest, in which 1 person was killed by shotgun fire).

A fair man. Twice, he made mediation recommendations that were not binding on either party. (This was not binding arbitration) Recommendations in which either party was neither winning or losing everything in dispute. Twice the mediator recommended the same salaries that we'd be asking for (which were in line with the other Charter carriers in Canada at the time, one of which is still in business) Twice the flight attendants said "okay", and twice Nationair said ''no way". (Eventually, when it's very survival was at risk, Nationair would agree to the exact same salaries they'd twice said "no" to)

One of the more unusual suggestions he made was that the lockout and the union boycott be "suspended" for a period of 6 months, the locked out employees go back to work under their old conditions, and both parties continue to negotiate/mediate. He would work with us as long as it took. The Flight Attendant group voted in favor, the company refused, saying that if we came back, it would be under the "new" conditions that the scabs were working under. The Mediator was not amused.

A SCAB Union?
One of the more bizarre aspects to the lockout was the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and their involvement in the attempt at the unionizing of SCABs at Nationair.

When the Flight Attendants/Pursers and In-Flight Service Managers first unionized with CUPE, Nationair froze the ISM position and created the IFD position, which was not unionized and was a managerial position. This in effect, removed one working body from our aircraft, unless you were working with one of the few ISM's left. IFD's could not participate in service as that was "owned" by our bargaining unit. Nationair did not want to put another flight attendant on board, and felt (initially) that they needed a manager who was not part of any union on board, to be the eyes and ears of Management.

As most would probably expect, eventually, the IFD's decided to unionize, so CUPE and the Teamsters battled it out. Each holding information/disinformation meetings as the case may be. The Teamsters won the certification vote. This happened before the lockout.

So during the lockout the Teamsters set sights on the scabs. Getting them to sign union cards and saying that they would be the only group certified to work on Nationair aircraft and that the locked out flight attendants walking the picket lines would be history, never coming back because they weren't part of the Teamsters union.

As it turned out, Nationair didn't have a problem with it's flight attendants being part of a union, as long as it was the Teamsters union. Apparently, what they really had a problem with was CUPE. You know you're in trouble when a company wants you to join a certain union.

It all got rather confusing I'm sure... the company endorsing one union over the one they'd locked out, saying that they'll negotiate with the Teamsters but not CUPE, the Teamsters claiming that they were the official representatives of the "new" flight attendants, and then the locked out union members picketing corporate headquarters and saying that they were the first and only bargaining unit for flight attendants.

So not only were Teamster members protecting scabs as they crossed CUPE picket lines, but they were trying to break the CUPE union and replace CUPE members with scabs.

When it was all over, Nationair had spent so much money fighting us, training scabs (well over $200,000), paying over $35,000 a month for it's "private security" goons, not paying it's bills, third-party liability insurance, landing fees, fuel taxes and what-not, that they declared bankruptcy on our first day back at work. Not only that, but the President , who cared about nothing more than his reputation, found that reputation somewhat sullied by his sudden inability to get away with mis-representations, the resignation of 3 V.P.s, (VP of Communications, Head of Marketing and Chief of Operations) and his company being linked to gun-running.

Eventually, one of our competitors would promise to hire everyone. Everyone that is, except for those nasty union officers. Sound discriminatory? We thought so too, as did the Canadian Labor Relations Board. Air Transat was found guilty of discriminating against us for our involvement in the union, totally disregarding our superior qualifications.

Pretty strange for a company that enjoys investment from the Solidarity Fund in Quebec, Canada. This is a fund made up of union member's contributions. (Of course these union people in Quebec haven't been told about this, and CUPE sure won't tell 'em, so keep it under your hat okay? They'd be plenty pissed if they found out they were financing a company that discriminates against union officers.

(Air Transat has a flight attendant union, but it's real cozy with them, if you get my drift....)

 

[robbedagain]

yet you once again post this about the IBT. How about posting what the IAM is/has done at NWA. They have been scabbing since AMFA walked out on strike at NWA. Man it is a no wonder the IAM is losing members faster than they can gain them. And a side note, the IAM doesnt have much a good history to it especially in the last 5 or so yrs

 

[awausairtech]

Are you talking about the ibt again, lookie here, scab history of the ibt.
Here is more:

1946 1947 1948 1949 well at least you found something in the last 15 yrs.
WAKE UP ITS 2006
And THINGS CHANGE AS THE NBM SHOWED YOU AND AS I SAID WITH THE STOCK CLERKS.

When we do get to VOTE you will see a lot more CHANGES FOR THE GOOD OF THE MEMBERS FOR A CHANGE.
THE IBT WILL SEE TO THAT!