Company Call For Meeting With Unions
- Thread starter Fatherknowsbest
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PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
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My hunch is that management is upset over the decidsion of the Judge on the IAM issue. They were hoping to snatch that cost savings and were just so assured that they would win it. I believe this was a great "blow" to management, and for some types in CCY, their EGOS.
I think they are now going to torture all of Labor with more give backs to mostly punish IAM. I suspect, they will threaten another BK for 2004 if we don't give. Considering ALPA has the "lions" share of stock (rightfully so for all the sacrificing those poor souls have done) the stock will be in jeopardy if there is another threat of BK. This management only knows how to threaten Labor. Each threat gets more severe and aggressive.
AFA will hold the line on round #3. Unless the co. has some creative ideas on how we can work smarter and be more productive in that respect WITHOUT giving up any more flexibility or wages and benefits. I have never been opposed to building bridges with mangement. They need to stop with the "heavy handed " approach ASAP. Morale is costing the company plenty alone.
Management failed to cost out our winter agreement. In fact, they made every excuse not to cost it out. We won't be moving in that direction again. Keep in mind, Medical/dental go up again in Jan. in spite of small "snap back" in wages we all should be receiving Jan. 2004. If management gives any more threats, they should just go with it. We are done with personal give backs. I believe all groups feel the same way.
I think they are now going to torture all of Labor with more give backs to mostly punish IAM. I suspect, they will threaten another BK for 2004 if we don't give. Considering ALPA has the "lions" share of stock (rightfully so for all the sacrificing those poor souls have done) the stock will be in jeopardy if there is another threat of BK. This management only knows how to threaten Labor. Each threat gets more severe and aggressive.
AFA will hold the line on round #3. Unless the co. has some creative ideas on how we can work smarter and be more productive in that respect WITHOUT giving up any more flexibility or wages and benefits. I have never been opposed to building bridges with mangement. They need to stop with the "heavy handed " approach ASAP. Morale is costing the company plenty alone.
Management failed to cost out our winter agreement. In fact, they made every excuse not to cost it out. We won't be moving in that direction again. Keep in mind, Medical/dental go up again in Jan. in spite of small "snap back" in wages we all should be receiving Jan. 2004. If management gives any more threats, they should just go with it. We are done with personal give backs. I believe all groups feel the same way.
Smartest Loser
Senior
- Jun 20, 2003
- 313
- 0
I just have to add my two cents here... 
If U can't get some form of Labor Peace going with Mgt. It won't have to worry about LCC's.....It will implode from within...!!!
LCC's are the least of U's problems right now, every group wants to see current MGT hit the door. Me included. :angry: :angry:
SL
If U can't get some form of Labor Peace going with Mgt. It won't have to worry about LCC's.....It will implode from within...!!!
LCC's are the least of U's problems right now, every group wants to see current MGT hit the door. Me included. :angry: :angry:
SL
PITbull,
May I ask, in your last post, you do not mention anything about more furloughs or any further reductions to the work force. I am curious as to your insight regarding this matter. I understand that the union(s) are finshed giving concessions to the company but, what about the jobs?
May I ask, in your last post, you do not mention anything about more furloughs or any further reductions to the work force. I am curious as to your insight regarding this matter. I understand that the union(s) are finshed giving concessions to the company but, what about the jobs?
If they're going to do it, just shut the **** up and do it. I am so sick and tired of listening to Dave and CO complain all the time they cant do it with our pay costs so high (without mentioning ANYTHING at all about generating MORE REVENUE), then just do it already. Quit the games, quit the threats, quit the beatings cause we're so numb now it isnt going to matter to us what you do. Just do it. I wasn't sure about posting this, but now that the threats are probably going to be coming out again this week, I feel it is appropriate. It is from a mental abuse website.
Mental Abuse
What is Mental Abuse?
Mental abuse is the abuse of power or control over another person. Emotional and verbal abuse are used as manipulative tools in mental abuse. When a person is being mentally abused, he also experiences emotional and verbal abuse.
It includes inducing fear by intimidating, terrorizing, threatening, humiliating, insulting, degrading, destroying property, and isolating a person from family and friends. Mental abuse is a horrible thing. Fear is used to control another person.
Sometimes mentally abusive people do not even realize they are hurting their family and loved ones. Other times they say things on purpose as a way of controlling another person by hurting him.
Sadly, many victims of such abuse put up with this maltreatment. It can be seen in the work place, at school and at home. Sometimes it seems that no matter where a person goes, he is always vulnerable to this type of abuse. It even happens when you are just walking about in public.
What are some examples of Mental Abuse?
Some statements made are:
Insult - “You look like a slut, change your clothesâ€
Threat -“You better clean up, or elseâ€
Intimidation - “I am smarter than you areâ€
Degrading -“You are fat and ugly, no one else would want youâ€
Isolating a person from friends and/ or family - “Your friends are losersâ€
Just my personal take on the whole "Dave and Company gang."
Mental Abuse
What is Mental Abuse?
Mental abuse is the abuse of power or control over another person. Emotional and verbal abuse are used as manipulative tools in mental abuse. When a person is being mentally abused, he also experiences emotional and verbal abuse.
It includes inducing fear by intimidating, terrorizing, threatening, humiliating, insulting, degrading, destroying property, and isolating a person from family and friends. Mental abuse is a horrible thing. Fear is used to control another person.
Sometimes mentally abusive people do not even realize they are hurting their family and loved ones. Other times they say things on purpose as a way of controlling another person by hurting him.
Sadly, many victims of such abuse put up with this maltreatment. It can be seen in the work place, at school and at home. Sometimes it seems that no matter where a person goes, he is always vulnerable to this type of abuse. It even happens when you are just walking about in public.
What are some examples of Mental Abuse?
Some statements made are:
Insult - “You look like a slut, change your clothesâ€
Threat -“You better clean up, or elseâ€
Intimidation - “I am smarter than you areâ€
Degrading -“You are fat and ugly, no one else would want youâ€
Isolating a person from friends and/ or family - “Your friends are losersâ€
Just my personal take on the whole "Dave and Company gang."
Who else do we have to give up? We're already at FAA minimum staffing on planes and , as far as where I work, minimum staffing at the counter and gates. Again, WHO else is there we can get rid of?????? I have some suggestions of my own, but we know that isnt going to fly.broadfoot said:
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
ACCORDING TO THE PITTSBURGHLIVE.COM, IT SAYS THAT USAIRWAYS NEEDS EVEN DEEPER COST CUTS. WELL AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, I WILL REFUSE ANY FURTHER CONCESSIONS. AS I HAVE SAID I BELIEVE THE FARE STRUCTURE FIXING MAY HELP TO GREATLY INCREASE THE REVENUE.
Reservation Agent
Senior
- Aug 23, 2002
- 406
- 0
We have already given all the money to the company we could...We have given in pay losses, additional health benefit preminum increases, loss of vacation/holiday pay and working short handed and trying to meet the same standards with less people....
We want to see how that money is being utilized to turn around the company...
It seems to me whether you announce a profit or a loss depends on how you interpret the dollars and cents...The company wrote off the stock to give employees.... and showed a 90 million dollar loss...The previous quarter it was showing a profit with government assistance...
The company has well over a billion dollars of cash on hand...The loads are up...The travellers seem to be comming back...other major carriers are doing well like Continental, Northwest...and United is comming out of bankruptcy...
We have code share agreements with United and Lufthansa and that is providing additional income... and more Star Alliance members are being added with Spannair starting in December...we are also adding more Carribbean service....
Seems to me the signs of a turnaround are appearing..and Dave is panicking about SouthWest into Phila, which will be about 40 flights a day at 4 gates...I believe alot of our traffic thru Philadelphia is in transit from other cities like Boston, Burlington, Manchester, Laguardia, Buffalo, Rochester, etc...
Part of the airlines problem may be trying to overstuff all the flights we have into and out of Phila when Pittsburgh is underutilized...and do you know how many customers that call us in Reservations, from New York... that don't book because they can't get a nonstop flight to Florida and other southern locations out of LaGuardia...They don't want to fly into Phila, when they can take other airlines nonstop to Tampa, Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Ft Myers, etc..
Passengers say they miss Metrojet...
We want to see how that money is being utilized to turn around the company...
It seems to me whether you announce a profit or a loss depends on how you interpret the dollars and cents...The company wrote off the stock to give employees.... and showed a 90 million dollar loss...The previous quarter it was showing a profit with government assistance...
The company has well over a billion dollars of cash on hand...The loads are up...The travellers seem to be comming back...other major carriers are doing well like Continental, Northwest...and United is comming out of bankruptcy...
We have code share agreements with United and Lufthansa and that is providing additional income... and more Star Alliance members are being added with Spannair starting in December...we are also adding more Carribbean service....
Seems to me the signs of a turnaround are appearing..and Dave is panicking about SouthWest into Phila, which will be about 40 flights a day at 4 gates...I believe alot of our traffic thru Philadelphia is in transit from other cities like Boston, Burlington, Manchester, Laguardia, Buffalo, Rochester, etc...
Part of the airlines problem may be trying to overstuff all the flights we have into and out of Phila when Pittsburgh is underutilized...and do you know how many customers that call us in Reservations, from New York... that don't book because they can't get a nonstop flight to Florida and other southern locations out of LaGuardia...They don't want to fly into Phila, when they can take other airlines nonstop to Tampa, Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Ft Myers, etc..
Passengers say they miss Metrojet...
Justaramper
Advanced
- Dec 15, 2002
- 218
- 0
Wouldn't it be nice if the company thought to INCREASE revenue...? ALL IN, Dave, show your hand...
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
In all honesty, who didn't see this coming?
I am still deeply disappointed in Dave and Companies continued inability to rally the troops here. They continue to rule by fear and intimidation. Today is a perfect example. Chris Chiames sent out a note to all managers today with an article attached regarding Southwests announcement of service to PHL. The jist of the note was to share the information with all your employees. We all realize that the threat is real and it is aimed right at our heads, but no where in this letter is there any call to arms for employees. Since this announcement all we have really heard is the barage of cries about competitive cost structures.
It is my sincerest hopes that this meeting in CCY is a call to arms for all employee groups. It will be the kick off of a campaign to inspire and motivate employees and reassure them that we are going to stand and defeat WN at their own game. We are not going to just sit here and beaten from all sides by our low cost competitors, instead we are going to rise to the challenge and defeat them whiile revolutionizing how mature carriers do business. If this turns out to be just another brow beating by Dave and Company with endless rants about comeptitve cost structures, reducing costs, ultimate sacrifices, additional furloughs and the like, then in my eyes, we are doomed to meet the fates of former trunk carriers like Eastern, Branniff, Pan Am and TWA. You can only rob the employee honey pot so many times before you get stung. Contiued flight reductions, pay decreases, "rightsizing", etc will not work. We need a leader with a growth plan!
I am still deeply disappointed in Dave and Companies continued inability to rally the troops here. They continue to rule by fear and intimidation. Today is a perfect example. Chris Chiames sent out a note to all managers today with an article attached regarding Southwests announcement of service to PHL. The jist of the note was to share the information with all your employees. We all realize that the threat is real and it is aimed right at our heads, but no where in this letter is there any call to arms for employees. Since this announcement all we have really heard is the barage of cries about competitive cost structures.
It is my sincerest hopes that this meeting in CCY is a call to arms for all employee groups. It will be the kick off of a campaign to inspire and motivate employees and reassure them that we are going to stand and defeat WN at their own game. We are not going to just sit here and beaten from all sides by our low cost competitors, instead we are going to rise to the challenge and defeat them whiile revolutionizing how mature carriers do business. If this turns out to be just another brow beating by Dave and Company with endless rants about comeptitve cost structures, reducing costs, ultimate sacrifices, additional furloughs and the like, then in my eyes, we are doomed to meet the fates of former trunk carriers like Eastern, Branniff, Pan Am and TWA. You can only rob the employee honey pot so many times before you get stung. Contiued flight reductions, pay decreases, "rightsizing", etc will not work. We need a leader with a growth plan!
deltawatch
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 887
- 0
Once again, management would like to prevent CWA from fully reporting information to the passenger service employees... CWA UPDATE
We seem to be stuck in a “Groundhog Day†movie with US Airways management – every discussion covers the same territory: the poor state of the airline, inability to compete against other airlines, hard-working management burdened by an excessive employee cost structure, the need to make further cuts. And, most important, management always objects to the feedback reports and updates we send out to our members.
As you remember, we had a confrontation with management this summer regarding the feedback report we sent our members after the first “Labor Advisory Committee†meeting. At that time we reported, accurately, that US Airways executives outlined each and every US Airways employee salary or benefit that was, in their opinion, better than another carrier and therefore an “excessive cost†to US Airways. We reported that it looked like they were preparing for round three of concessions demands. Management said we should not have told that to the employees; we should have kept it “confidential.â€
We are willing to have any discussions management wants to have, and have always pledged to keep their legitimate business secrets from their competitors, but we are not willing to allow management to censor the information our members receive and keep the employees in the dark about management’s intentions regarding concessions or any other employment conditions.
Now management has presented us with another confidentiality statement. If signed, this statement would allow management to define what information is to be kept from the employees, restrict our rights to request information from anyone other than two specified VP’s, and allow management to take the union to court to enforce their secrecy rules. Employees would be kept in the dark.
We have not signed this document and instead we will propose a normal, sensible confidentiality statement that restates our position: we will not reveal any non-public business confidential data that would aid a competitor. We believe confidentiality should be aimed at the competitor airlines, not at US Airways employees.
We seem to be stuck in a “Groundhog Day†movie with US Airways management – every discussion covers the same territory: the poor state of the airline, inability to compete against other airlines, hard-working management burdened by an excessive employee cost structure, the need to make further cuts. And, most important, management always objects to the feedback reports and updates we send out to our members.
As you remember, we had a confrontation with management this summer regarding the feedback report we sent our members after the first “Labor Advisory Committee†meeting. At that time we reported, accurately, that US Airways executives outlined each and every US Airways employee salary or benefit that was, in their opinion, better than another carrier and therefore an “excessive cost†to US Airways. We reported that it looked like they were preparing for round three of concessions demands. Management said we should not have told that to the employees; we should have kept it “confidential.â€
We are willing to have any discussions management wants to have, and have always pledged to keep their legitimate business secrets from their competitors, but we are not willing to allow management to censor the information our members receive and keep the employees in the dark about management’s intentions regarding concessions or any other employment conditions.
Now management has presented us with another confidentiality statement. If signed, this statement would allow management to define what information is to be kept from the employees, restrict our rights to request information from anyone other than two specified VP’s, and allow management to take the union to court to enforce their secrecy rules. Employees would be kept in the dark.
We have not signed this document and instead we will propose a normal, sensible confidentiality statement that restates our position: we will not reveal any non-public business confidential data that would aid a competitor. We believe confidentiality should be aimed at the competitor airlines, not at US Airways employees.
So lets see..after I pay my bills now I barley have enough to go food shoping when did I sign up for this... my son wanted to go to the movies and all I can say is not today we know why so if he is going to ask for more he will just have to come and put a for sale sign on my front lawn because that is where we are I cannot strech it any more this is sad. :angry:
Hay Dave do you have any money problems....I didn't think so.
Hay Dave do you have any money problems....I didn't think so.
If the meeting is a call to arms and a realization by Siegel that his tactics and business decisions in the past have been wrong, and if he admits it, then we are on the right track.
But I doubt it.
More likely will be a stark picture of how WN will eat our lunch in PHL because of our "cost structure" and then he will allow the stew to simmer for a week or two. Then the ultimatum of lowering our costs by pay cuts/work rule changes or else C11 again or something even more dire. Yet nothing will be mentioned regarding inceasing revenue or longer routes or changing the existing business plan because the arrogance of he and his team who truly believe in what they are doing. They are wrong. It is that simple.
My solution:
If the first paragraph is correct we trust but verify. We determine if he is being truthful and if a change in corporate culture/business planning is true. Then we do what we have to do to win the WN battle. And we can win it with motivated employees.
If the second paragraph is true, then we demand that this BOD get rid of Siegel. We give nothing, discuss nothing until he is gone. If he takes it to C11 again, so be it. If he takes it to C7, so be it. This man can't run an airline the way he is attempting to. Either he changes or he is gone or we all are gone.
mr
But I doubt it.
More likely will be a stark picture of how WN will eat our lunch in PHL because of our "cost structure" and then he will allow the stew to simmer for a week or two. Then the ultimatum of lowering our costs by pay cuts/work rule changes or else C11 again or something even more dire. Yet nothing will be mentioned regarding inceasing revenue or longer routes or changing the existing business plan because the arrogance of he and his team who truly believe in what they are doing. They are wrong. It is that simple.
My solution:
If the first paragraph is correct we trust but verify. We determine if he is being truthful and if a change in corporate culture/business planning is true. Then we do what we have to do to win the WN battle. And we can win it with motivated employees.
If the second paragraph is true, then we demand that this BOD get rid of Siegel. We give nothing, discuss nothing until he is gone. If he takes it to C11 again, so be it. If he takes it to C7, so be it. This man can't run an airline the way he is attempting to. Either he changes or he is gone or we all are gone.
mr
Reading this post just makes me angrier than I already am being a U employee!deltawatch said:
I would like to see a total shut down, absolutely complete shut down of this airline until and unless this pathetic management team is replaced, because they are the cancer that will only spread if left untreated and kill us anyway.
The direction we are headed with the management team we now have means failure regardless and so we have nothing to lose and maybe everything to gain by a total labor shut down until this team is history.
allegheny1
Member
- Oct 1, 2002
- 84
- 0
I cant fathom how you can call anyone to ccy and update them on the status
of the airline when you have no clue what that status is.......you don t fix
things just through concessions and bankruptcy court.
DAVE, took this car to the shop and dertermined many things needed to be
repaired...then he only repaired what he understood,brought the car home,
and put it back in the garage....still broken.
Never....Never...from an operational standpoint...have any problems even
been attemped to be rectified. Example....The last tme i checked each delay
minute costs about $33.00. For the last 9 months or better we have tried
to get through to a low level manager that he is causing great disruptrutions to
the operation and have documented 50 to 80 hours of needless delay time
each month not to mention the needless crew and through passenger
inconvenience. Let s see....thats something on the order of $1 million per
month. It always ends up with lip service and no action.
Secondly, as i stated in a previous thread, there are folks who roam the
building looking for a new crossword puzzle or sports page because their
job function only encompasses about 2 hrs of work per day...less a 1 hr
lunch break. I would like to see these jobs given to the folks who are in
front of out passengers or actually turning the wrenches to keep us moving.
Hell...you could probably start a complete mtc track just by closing down
the conference call line and making some folks productive again.
To many stats for dave, to many people who don t undersand an airline
operation or its passengers and employees.
You know what you will hear in ccy...and it isn t what you should be hearing.
MY HELMET AND SHOULDPADS PROTECT ME
of the airline when you have no clue what that status is.......you don t fix
things just through concessions and bankruptcy court.
DAVE, took this car to the shop and dertermined many things needed to be
repaired...then he only repaired what he understood,brought the car home,
and put it back in the garage....still broken.
Never....Never...from an operational standpoint...have any problems even
been attemped to be rectified. Example....The last tme i checked each delay
minute costs about $33.00. For the last 9 months or better we have tried
to get through to a low level manager that he is causing great disruptrutions to
the operation and have documented 50 to 80 hours of needless delay time
each month not to mention the needless crew and through passenger
inconvenience. Let s see....thats something on the order of $1 million per
month. It always ends up with lip service and no action.
Secondly, as i stated in a previous thread, there are folks who roam the
building looking for a new crossword puzzle or sports page because their
job function only encompasses about 2 hrs of work per day...less a 1 hr
lunch break. I would like to see these jobs given to the folks who are in
front of out passengers or actually turning the wrenches to keep us moving.
Hell...you could probably start a complete mtc track just by closing down
the conference call line and making some folks productive again.
To many stats for dave, to many people who don t undersand an airline
operation or its passengers and employees.
You know what you will hear in ccy...and it isn t what you should be hearing.
MY HELMET AND SHOULDPADS PROTECT ME
