CO backs out of merger, UA/US deal still on?

smoot4208 said:
You got that right! I venture to say that out of the $239 million lost, $125+came from that side
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I can't wait to hear you guys spin it if this deal happens.

"Of course the Wilkes Barre and Buffalo routes made all the money. We're subsidizing those money-losing low-yield Asian flights out of SFO & LAX. And the DEN & ORD hubs gotta go too."
 
zethya said:
Let's "unspin" your Spin a bit. The total International O&D (YE 9/2007) for US based carriers at IAD was 2,878,400. The total for PHL was 2,898,018. Since US and UA are essentially the only US based carriers flying internationally from these airports, these numbers closely, if not exactly, represent their actual O&D passenger counts. A further advantage at PHL for US, versus UA at IAD is that 20% of all international flights are on international carriers, whereas that number at IAD is 51% - much more competition. San Juan is not considered International in these numbers. Further, PHL has a almost Twice the Domestic O&D of IAD. I will admit that IAD Possibly has better "quality" (more premium passengers) international O&D than does PHL, but I'd speculate that is principally driven by US's service quality; otherwise, it's unlikely BA/AF would be as successful at PHL as they are.
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Nice try but your "spin" leaves a lot to be desired.

First, your numbers are not O&D but are, in fact, enplanements/deplanements. Big difference. O&D includes only those passengers starting or ending their trip at an airport (IAD and PHL in this case), while enplanement/deplanement numbers include the true O&D passengers as well as those passengers making a connection at the hub. Your so-called "O&D" numbers aren't even close to the real ones.

Second, I do have access to the DOT-restricted international O&D database and can tell you that IAD's total international O&D passengers are 20% higher than PHL's, IAD's average fare for all international O&D passengers is 79% higher than PHL's, and IAD's total international O&D revenue is a whopping 115% higher than PHL's (sorry but the actual numbers behind the percentages are not allowed to be shown on a public forum like this one). And only U.S. carriers file their international O&D data with the DOT with virtually no public distribution (i.e., it's not on the BTS website).

Third, the international O&D at IAD and PHL doesn't include only UA's and US' data on nonstop flights but also ALL U.S. carrier data for passengers traveling via other domestic hubs as well. For example, IAD-CCS and PHL-CCS passengers carried by AA over its MIA hub are included in each airport's respective international O&D totals despite not being flown nonstop.

Fourth, your comment about competition by foreign carriers overlooks the fact that many of those 20 -- soon to be 21 -- carriers at IAD (such as AC, LH, NH, OS, SA, SK and TA) codeshare with UA, significantly improving the carrier's international offerings at its IAD hub, while only one (LH) of the five foreign carriers at PHL does so with US. Moreover, the presence of numerous foreign carriers at IAD is also indicative of the strength of the international travel market in the Washington area and, despite the added competition, that's a good thing.

For some additional data, read my post in the thread that whlinder linked to above. And to reiterate my conclusion from that post,

The fact of the matter is that IAD has far more international passengers than does PHL, on both an enplaned/deplaned basis and an O&D basis. ... So IMHO, anyone who thinks that PHL would be the premier east coast international gateway [rather than IAD] for a merged UA/US, especially if United is the purchaser, will likely be sorely disappointed. The data simply doesn't support any other conclusion.
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Leave "snot4208" alone. There are too many wonderful employees on our east side to let one idiot ruin so many kindnesses that have been extended from our east coworkers. The merger was over 2 years ago and we have crushing fuel prices that may bring the industry to its knees, please lets make this next merger about beating the competition and not each other. If this merger happens and UAL employee should be treated as a long lost relative because we will become an airline family. Mama
 
AlleghenyVista said:
So what is the flying like out of the LHR base? Just to ORD,IAD,SFO and LAX? How many trips a day? Eqiupment?
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United has multiple flights from each domicile. Some flights are crewed with LHR crews, othes with U.S.-based crews. For example, the afternoon SFO-LHR trip is flown by SFO crews. The evening trip is flown by LHR. Same with FRA. The afternoon FRA is flown with SFO crews as well (747), the evening is flown with FRA crews (777). At UA we mix crews, so it is not uncommon to have a few SFO crewmembers on the evening FRA/LHR flights, likewise LHR/FRA crews on the earlier flights.

I've been taking special leaves of absence since September, but if I recall, LHR goes to a 747 during the summer on the early flight. Just about all FRA/LHR trips are flown with 47/77 A/C. Our alliance with LH is so strong that both FRA trips go out full year round.

A good friend of mine is based at LHR and she's been working LAX trips (a 4-day...48 hr L/O). Most are 3-day trips (read, high-time). SFO-FRA-SFO goes to about 35 years seniority. SFO-PEK and SFO-PVG go to about...well, let's just say that one has to have a walker to hold those trips...

The foreign crews really do elevate the image of United. The London crews deliver a flawless service (many former Pan Amer's). If the merger is consummated and you transfer to our bases and seize our international flying, we respectfully request that you leave your Allegheny Airlines DC-9 Vistajet mentality in Wilkes/Barre... :rolleyes:
 
JAMAKE1 said:
United has multiple flights from each domicile. Some flights are crewed with LHR crews, othes with U.S.-based crews. For example, the afternoon SFO-LHR trip is flown by SFO crews. The evening trip is flown by LHR. Same with FRA. The afternoon FRA is flown with SFO crews as well (747), the evening is flown with FRA crews (777). At UA we mix crews, so it is not uncommon to have a few SFO crewmembers on the evening FRA/LHR flights, likewise LHR/FRA crews on the earlier flights.

I've been taking special leaves of absence since September, but if I recall, LHR goes to a 747 during the summer on the early flight. Just about all FRA/LHR trips are flown with 47/77 A/C. Our alliance with LH is so strong that both FRA trips go out full year round.

A good friend of mine is based at LHR and she's been working LAX trips (a 4-day...48 hr L/O). Most are 3-day trips (read, high-time). SFO-FRA-SFO goes to about 35 years seniority. SFO-PEK and SFO-PVG go to about...well, let's just say that one has to have a walker to hold those trips...

The foreign crews really do elevate the image of United. The London crews deliver a flawless service (many former Pan Amer's). If the merger is consummated and you transfer to our bases and seize our international flying, we respectfully request that you leave your Allegheny Airlines DC-9 Vistajet mentality in Wilkes/Barre... :rolleyes:
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AlleghenyVista is just a name! Nowhere near that senior. Im in the 10-15 year seniority range here at US.
 
JAMAKE1 said:
The foreign crews really do elevate the image of United. The London crews deliver a flawless service (many former Pan Amer's). If the merger is consummated and you transfer to our bases and seize our international flying, we respectfully request that you leave your Allegheny Airlines DC-9 Vistajet mentality in Wilkes/Barre... :rolleyes:
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So is this going to be a 3 way war [US vs. UA vs. HP] between the merged United/US?



Pardon me for asking, but has the West and East settled their differences? From this message board, it seems like the east and west relationship drastically improved.
 
JAMAKE1 said:
The foreign crews really do elevate the image of United. The London crews deliver a flawless service (many former Pan Amer's). If the merger is consummated and you transfer to our bases and seize our international flying, we respectfully request that you leave your Allegheny Airlines DC-9 Vistajet mentality in Wilkes/Barre... :rolleyes:
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<< This is only in good fun on the comeback, not personal >>

Agreed, so long as you don't go on and on about the glory days of working the Viscounts and the "Executive" Caravelle flights! :lol: :lol:
 
Vista...I was just being a smart ass. No offense intended. You and I are about the same seniority. I just celebrated (cough...) 13 years on April 16th. I've only worked about 10 however. If leaves are offered, I usually take them. I'm headed back to work for the summer.
 
JAMAKE1 said:
Vista...I was just being a smart ass. No offense intended. You and I are about the same seniority. I just celebrated (cough...) 13 years on April 16th. I've only worked about 10 however. If leaves are offered, I usually take them. I'm headed back to work for the summer.
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Oh i know you were! :up: Thanks for all the info though. Much appreciated. We are all just going to have to go with the flow if this merger happens.
None of us are going to be the ones who decide if this merger happens. Im sure we will all get along fine. US and UA have some of the most professional airline employees out there.
 
UPNAWAY said:
Heck USAIR hasn't finished the Piedmont merger yet! In MX CLT & PIT do everything different still! :down:
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Um no the dont, that would be against the FARs, the MPP and the compliance agreement between the FAA and US Airways.
 
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