CLT-GRU gone?

[AirwAr]

Yes, I am.
 
Do I like it? No...I do not.
 
However, people or passengers don't "get" the difference like we do. They are just trying to get there. They will see one flight number and they will be good with that.
 
It is what it is.

 
Well good...it seems you are on the same page with AA'ers predictions...CLT will continue to lose direct international service and funnel passengers through other hubs.

 

[700UW]

So you are saying PMAA doesnt use tag along flights with change of planes for an international destination?
 
CLT isnt going anywhere, its was the largest hub in the PMUS system and AA doesnt have a southeast hub, they couldnt compete against CLT that is why RDU was downized, CO couldnt compete with US that is why GSO was downsized.
 
CLT is the 2nd largest financial center in the US, has a large corporate headquarters presence and a huge Fortune 500 company presence.
 
Doug is a #s guy, pure and simple, and CLT's #s work, that is why there is a new terminal being built and expansion of the B- Concourse and expansion of D and E concourses again.

 

[robbedagain]

Does PHL have the traffic to hold a Brazil Flight  as well as PHX?

 

[FWAAA]

Does PHL have the traffic to hold a Brazil Flight  as well as PHX?

PHL, maybe.    pmUS requested GRU frequencies to begin PHL-GRU last year but did not win those.
 
PHX doesn't have the O&D, and the connection possibilities served via PHX but not served via LAX don't provide enough O&D either.    LAX has quite a bit of O&D to/from Brazil and AA began a daily flight to GRU from LAX late last year.  
 
I've lost track of all the GRU frequencies, but I believe that Delta owes US seven weekly GRU frequencies late this year or early next year.

 

[AirwAr]

So you are saying PMAA doesnt use tag along flights with change of planes for an international destination?

 
No I'm not...of course PMAA does.  Where did I say PMAA didn't?  
 
The crux of that discussion was whether replacing direct service for "tag" service represents downsizing for CLT or not. 
 
 

 

Doug is a #s guy, pure and simple, and CLT's #s work, that is why there is a new terminal being built and expansion of the B- Concourse and expansion of D and E concourses again.

 

 
Yup...that's why CLT-GRU, CLT-GIG were axed.
 
 

 

CLT isnt going anywhere, its was the largest hub in the PMUS system and AA doesnt have a southeast hub, they couldnt compete against CLT that is why RDU was downized, CO couldnt compete with US that is why GSO was downsized.
 
CLT is the 2nd largest financial center in the US, has a large corporate headquarters presence and a huge Fortune 500 company presence.

 
Yes...based on PMUS hub system...I can see why CLT was so important for you.  The question we're trying to answer...does it hold the same importance in the new AA that it held in PMUS?
 
Time will tell.

 

[700UW]

Where on the East Coast does AA have a connecting hub?
 
Oh wait they dont.
 
That is why CLT will remain and be grown, Doug and Scott have both stated it.
 
DL has ATL, UA sas IAD.  AA had nothing.

 

[FWAAA]

There might be hope for a resumption of Charlotte-Brazil service;   Chiquita Brands (which moved to CLT from CVG a while back) received an unsolicited buyout offer from two Brazilian companies:
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chiquita-confirms-receipt-unsolicited-offer-185846340.html
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28748092
 
Chiquita is in the midst of a friendly merger with an Irish conglomerate - if that merger happens, perhaps year-round service to DUB would be feasible.   

 

[jimntx]

They did add CLT-LHR.  It seems during mergers (No. 3 for me) people enjoy seeing others' lives destroyed. This American bunch is particularly notorious. 

????  Were you not aware that the great majority of the upper level management are from the US Airways side of the aisle?

 

[700UW]

He was talking about rank and file employees not Parker and company.

 

[WorldTraveler]

And neither does SLC, CVG, DTW, LGA, now do they? CLT has been a hub for EA, PI, US and now the new AA. It seems to have been making money for years before SA flights and will still make money for the new AA.

 
none of which are in the southeast.

DTW does have nonstop flights to GRU, BTW.
 

We, as flight attendants, have been very disappointed about this. However, we do understand this is being driven by equipment realignment. Now, having said that...it may be flown by CLT F/As once we have been qualified on the 777. In fact, that is our understanding for the time being.

so does that mean that you will be flying AA equipment and vice versa...? 
 

 

At low enough fares, you can fill any plane to just about anywhere.   Charlotte has lost its flights to Brazil because of the very low O&D between Charlotte and Brazil.   Period.   US employees have said that many of the passengers on the GIG and GRU flights were Brazilians flying to MCO.   No need to fly them all the way north to CLT only to fly them south back to MCO when MIA is on the way, and MIA also features significantly more O&D than CLT.

since the majority of traffic even on AA's flights from MIA to S. America are connections, the value of the O&D is not the issue. CLT has very low amounts of local O&D which means that CLT provides network competition to MIA. AA needs to funnel as much traffic as possible thru MIA because AA's ability to dominate Latin America is dependent on retaining its dominance over MIA.

AA cannot afford to siphon traffic off of MIA just as competition from S. Florida to Latin America heats up.  
 

PHL, maybe.    pmUS requested GRU frequencies to begin PHL-GRU last year but did not win those.
 
PHX doesn't have the O&D, and the connection possibilities served via PHX but not served via LAX don't provide enough O&D either.    LAX has quite a bit of O&D to/from Brazil and AA began a daily flight to GRU from LAX late last year.  
 
I've lost track of all the GRU frequencies, but I believe that Delta owes US seven weekly GRU frequencies late this year or early next year.

The DL GRU frequencies that DL gave US as part of the LGA-DCA slot deal were specific to CLT, IIRC.

I'd like to see the legal paperwork to confirm but since the Brazil awards are gateway specific, the chances are high that AA lost those frequencies with its decision to cancel CLT-GRU service.

Since AA had to add Campinas (VCP) service with frequencies it already had to GRU (GRU and VCP are considered a single point for bilateral purposes), the evidence seems to be that AA lost the CLT frequencies.  
 

Where on the East Coast does AA have a connecting hub?
 
Oh wait they dont.
 
That is why CLT will remain and be grown, Doug and Scott have both stated it.
 
DL has ATL, UA sas IAD.  AA had nothing.

forget about JFK?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Interestingly, I read in today's USA Today that LHR is evolving into a top technology global mecca.

 
Heathrow Airport evolving into a technology global mecca?  Whoda thunk they would have the room?

 

[700UW]

 
none of which are in the southeast.

DTW does have nonstop flights to GRU, BTW.
 
so does that mean that you will be flying AA equipment and vice versa...? 
 

 
since the majority of traffic even on AA's flights from MIA to S. America are connections, the value of the O&D is not the issue. CLT has very low amounts of local O&D which means that CLT provides network competition to MIA. AA needs to funnel as much traffic as possible thru MIA because AA's ability to dominate Latin America is dependent on retaining its dominance over MIA.

AA cannot afford to siphon traffic off of MIA just as competition from S. Florida to Latin America heats up.  
 
The DL GRU frequencies that DL gave US as part of the LGA-DCA slot deal were specific to CLT, IIRC.

I'd like to see the legal paperwork to confirm but since the Brazil awards are gateway specific, the chances are high that AA lost those frequencies with its decision to cancel CLT-GRU service.

Since AA had to add Campinas (VCP) service with frequencies it already had to GRU (GRU and VCP are considered a single point for bilateral purposes), the evidence seems to be that AA lost the CLT frequencies.  
 

forget about JFK

How many cities does AA fly to domestically from JFK, no one is going to fly North to fly South or from the West to the East back West to get to their destination.
 
You just dont get.

 

[roabilly]

 
Heathrow Airport evolving into a technology global mecca?  Whoda thunk they would have the room?

Nanotechnology!

 

[WorldTraveler]

How many cities does AA fly to domestically from JFK, no one is going to fly North to fly South or from the West to the East back West to get to their destination.
 
You just dont get.

no actually I do.

AA has service ON THE EAST COAST from MIA and JFK. They carry hundreds of passengers on A CONNECTING BASIS from both gateways.

Would you like to tell us what cities in the South or Southeast that you are certain that AA doesn't carry over JFK and can't carry from MIA?

And perhaps US did carry some passengers that AA couldn't carry over MIA or JFK but the far larger number of passengers that they US carried via CLT duplicated cities served from one or both of AA's existing hubs.

CLT was dumped because it provided internal competition to AA's Latin America network.

I didn't make the decision to dump CLT to S. America. But I do understand why they did it.

And it has nothing to do with the fact that CLT is incapable of serving as a gateway to Latin America.


Yeah, I do get it. In your zeal to defend CLT, you don't.

 

[FWAAA]

The DL GRU frequencies that DL gave US as part of the LGA-DCA slot deal were specific to CLT, IIRC.

I'd like to see the legal paperwork to confirm but since the Brazil awards are gateway specific, the chances are high that AA lost those frequencies with its decision to cancel CLT-GRU service.

Since AA had to add Campinas (VCP) service with frequencies it already had to GRU (GRU and VCP are considered a single point for bilateral purposes), the evidence seems to be that AA lost the CLT frequencies.  

You may be right, but I'm unconvinced.   The GRU frequencies that DL must transfer to US were being used by DL for DTW-GRU, and thus they must be unrestricted frequencies, since US planned to use them for CLT-GRU.    But does Parker's stated intentions (to use them for CLT-GRU) preclude new AA from changing its mind and using them for PHL-GRU or ORD-GRU?   I don't know.
 
When DL opposed the grant of new frequencies to US and AA,  Delta reminded the DoT that DL owed US those DTW-GRU frequencies that US intended to use for CLT, and DL argued that it absolutely had to have seven new frequencies so that it could keep DTW-GRU service alive beyond March, 2015 (when it is to transfer those frequencies to US).  
 
You may be right - maybe DL no longer owes US any Brazil rights, but I'm not convinced.