CLT-GRU gone?

[WorldTraveler]

no, the DL frequencies for DTW-GRU came partially from LAX-GRU (2 by UA) and 5 from DL (ATL-GIG when the era when GIG was a restricted access market just like GRU is now).

DL made route cases to be able to transfer its frequencies to make DTW-GRU daily service.

When DL promised the DTW-GRU frequencies to US, it was done with the approval of the DOT.

DL just happened to know that there was a route case coming up in 2013 that would allow DL to replace the frequencies. The promise of GRU frequencies was a risk only if DL wasn't able to replace its frequencies.

It turned out DL bet right since DL was re-awarded frequencies to replace the DTW-GRU frequencies.


US started CLT-GRU with frequencies leased from UA - who had at least 7 unused weekly frequencies.

Since US returned the UA frequencies, there are at least 14 unused GRU frequencies since 7 also became available when US stopped their CLT-GRU flight.

DL got what it wanted which was a 2nd ATL-GRU flight while DTW and JFK both operate on a daily basis. It has never said it wants more service than that. UA also operates 4 flts/day from GRU.

If the frequencies were really available and AA thought they could use them, they would ask for ORD-GRU but they didn't.

I suspect that starting LAX-GRU is enough and the Brazil market has effectively reached saturation for US carriers. AA has no incentive to start any further service because its seat share is still dominant. It has an alliance relationship (without a JV) with TAM, the only current Brazilian carrier that has nonstop US-Brazil service. AA will do its best to stay on top of Azul but given that Azul will be feeding both flights at both ends of the route, they will do fine.

BTW, DOT data shows that AA had nice yields and decent loads on LAX-GRU during January when all US-Brazil flights are heavy but loads dropped off in Feb and March. Without driving down yields, adding more capacity is not justified.

 

[jcw]

it's just easier to let him drone on and one and ignore

 

[jcw]

Everyone sit down - you are not going to believe this DL downgauged LAX-NRT from 747 to 777 - I guess other airlines are adjusting capacity not just AA - it just can't be true can it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Since the merger, DL has never LAX-NRT on a 744 on a year round basis - probably because NW didn't either at least for many years.

Not sure what LAX-NRT has to do with US' CLT-GRU flight, though.

 

[jcw]

oh I see - DL can adjust capacity for example they just cut several intra Asia flight - wasn't working for them -  but AA can't adjust schedules - I get it
 
Everyone knows MIA is a better gateway to SA than CLT - hence the change - very smart move - so why it must be demonized and say people are going to lose their jobs is just over the top

 

[robbedagain]

jcw   you need to understand that the dl cheerleader will demonize and even go as far as knocking peeps for anything and everything to make dl look like the perfect  airline.   in reality with the down grade from a 744 to 777 it cld be due to variety of reasons  but I would suspect that JL probably captures a lot more of the market from LA to NRT  just similar to how AA captures the traffic from MIA to S.A. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,
how about you actually ditch the attitude and try to understand the conversation instead of always seeing demons behind every doorknob?

jcw,
I never said that adjusting capacity was wrong... you seem to forget that I just said that cutting a bunch of routes to Europe is good - and something that not only can be done as a result of the merger and the expanded network but also because it makes good financial sense.

If AA operated lower cost aircraft to fly routes that currently lose money - such as the Pacific - and the routes work, then I absolutely support them.

Right now, until the 787 or 350 is in service, the only option AA has on the Pacific is to cancel by day of week - which they are doing.

again, DL has never operated 744s on LAX-NRT. You are trying to make a case that simply doesn't exist because the route has never been operated on a year round basis with a 744.

 

[robbedagain]

how about this WT  you stop down grading people  period   How about you stop tossing DL is better than any other airline in every dam thread.   That's why some of us have you on ignore.

 

[WorldTraveler]

how about you ditch the attitude?

You are the one with the chip on your shoulder.

I said nothing to "downgrade" you or push DL in this post other than to respond with the facts that DL or NW haven't operated this route on the 744 on a year round basis for years, if ever.

You are the one that decided to introduce trash into the conversation.

 

[robbedagain]

again I don't have an attitude  yet youre the one who posted DL crap about DTW to S.A   quit with your bs.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

because the topic is about GRU service; US' ability to serve the route was absolutely tied to the US-DL LGA/DCA slot swap.

US started the route with a leased frequency from UA and terminated the lease from UA based on the frequency that DL promised to US as part of the LGA/DCA slot deal.

for whatever reason, AA (which includes Parker) has decided it is not worth trying to use CLT as a gateway to S. America, instead relying on AA's traditional gateways.

All the indications are that the frequency that supported CLT-GRU and GIG go back into the pool of unallocated frequencies and there appears to be no demand by any US carrier to add more Brazil flights at this time.

 

[robbedagain]

I do think the UA leases US got is what began the GRU service   correct me if Im wrong  but the DL swap went a long way in helping to add another city.   I do have to wonder if PHL to S. A would of been better than CLT     I would think the traffic would be much better from phl to brazil compared to clt.

 

[FWAAA]

because the topic is about GRU service; US' ability to serve the route was absolutely tied to the US-DL LGA/DCA slot swap.

US started the route with a leased frequency from UA and terminated the lease from UA based on the frequency that DL promised to US as part of the LGA/DCA slot deal.

for whatever reason, AA (which includes Parker) has decided it is not worth trying to use CLT as a gateway to S. America, instead relying on AA's traditional gateways.

All the indications are that the frequency that supported CLT-GRU and GIG go back into the pool of unallocated frequencies and there appears to be no demand by any US carrier to add more Brazil flights at this time.

The US lease of the UA frequencies terminates on October 1, 2014.   Won't those frequencies revert to UA?    Or has UA indicated that it does not want them back?   
 
Delta stressed in its filings in last year's route case that it owes US the slot swap GRU frequencies by March 1, 2015.   Doesn't DL still owe US those frequencies?

I agree that the CLT-GRU frequencies awarded by DoT last year effective October 1, 2014,  will revert to the pool, along with the CLT-GIG frequencies.   
 
The other 2014 award from last year went to DL to continue DTW-GRU, and the existing frequencies are to be transferred to US no later than March 1, 2015.   
 
If DL doesn't intend to transfer the DTW frequencies to US, then DL's new DTW-GRU frequencies won't be needed.    So will those frequencies revert to the pool as well?   

 

[FWAAA]

I do think the UA leases US got is what began the GRU service   correct me if Im wrong  but the DL swap went a long way in helping to add another city.   I do have to wonder if PHL to S. A would of been better than CLT     I would think the traffic would be much better from phl to brazil compared to clt.

The slot swap was nothing but a huge gift to Delta.   it was dreamed up when US was running low on cash in 2009 and the promise of $65 million must have swayed Parker.   
 
Although I don't frequently agree with WT, he and I are in full agreement that Richard Anderson played Parker for the fool.   To get the merger done,  Parker had to give away all of AA's DCA slots and even a few AA LGA slots.   As a result, the government got two bites at the US-AA slots at DCA and LGA.     And Delta was able to replace the DTW-GRU frequencies for free last year in the Brazil route case.   
 
Bottom line:   New AA (combined AA-US) is no bigger at DCA than it would have been without the slot swap and new AA is smaller at LGA than it would have been without the slot swap.   The only thing US got was $65 million.   Delta got a huge presence at LGA, which is worth a lot more than the $65 million.   

 

[USFlyer]

The slot swap made sense at the time before a merger with AA was in the cards.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Parker played with the cards he was dealt at the time.