Closing of West Coast Cities

[phllax]

US deserves to get authority to fly from DCA to LAX and SFO more than anybody else does. While their presence at both SFO and LAX is minimal, they are #1 at DCA. Getting those flights would be a wet dream to many who work in DC and Arlington who would be able to take the Metro instead of treking out to IAD.

 

[jimntx]

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On 7/21/2003 2:35:26 PM phllax wrote:

US deserves to get authority to fly from DCA to LAX and SFO more than anybody else does. While their presence at both SFO and LAX is minimal, they are #1 at DCA. Getting those flights would be a wet dream to many who work in DC and Arlington who would be able to take the Metro instead of treking out to IAD.

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Highly unlikely that anyone will get permission to fly transcons out of DCA. The "monopolies" on certain flights out of DCA came from the agreement that allowed DCA to remain open after IAD came on-line. Remember if it weren''t for members of Congress who had a fit about having to drive all the way to IAD to get a flight (and not having personal parking spaces at IAD), DCA would have closed years ago. It''s just like the DFW/Love Field controversy.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 7/21/2003 508 PM jimntx wrote:


Highly unlikely that anyone will get permission to fly transcons out of DCA. The "monopolies" on certain flights out of DCA came from the agreement that allowed DCA to remain open after IAD came on-line. Remember if it weren''t for members of Congress who had a fit about having to drive all the way to IAD to get a flight (and not having personal parking spaces at IAD), DCA would have closed years ago. It''s just like the DFW/Love Field controversy.


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Whaddya mean there, pardner? There is already transcon service at DCA. AS flies n/s to SEA; HP flies n/s to PHX; TW used to fly n/s to LAX. And, while not truly transcon, DL flies to SLC and F9 flies to DEN.

 

[JS]

But PHX, SEA, SLC are hubs for the airline flying that route. US does not have a hub at LAX or SFO. DCA-LAX would be 100% O&D for US. You have to have onward connections available at the other end of the perimeter exemption route, if I remember the regs correctly.

Regarding LGA, I don''t recall there ever being perimeter rule exemptions. Slot exemptions for new routes, yes, but not distance exemptions.

 

[JS]

DCA being a hub is meaningless. It''s DCA that has the perimeter rule, not LAX.

Say you want to fly LAX to GSO. You can do that today with LAX-CLT-GSO. Changing planes in DCA is not an advantage. DCA being a point of origin or destination is the purpose.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 7/22/2003 4:03:09 PM JS wrote:

But PHX, SEA, SLC are hubs for the airline flying that route. US does not have a hub at LAX or SFO. DCA-LAX would be 100% O&D for US. You have to have onward connections available at the other end of the perimeter exemption route, if I remember the regs correctly.

Regarding LGA, I don''t recall there ever being perimeter rule exemptions. Slot exemptions for new routes, yes, but not distance exemptions.

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Would not be 100% DCA O/D traffic. Remember, there is a fair amount of connecting traffic taking place via DCA. US could easily connect to UA''s flights at LAX or SFO.

 

[JS]

Then give the route to UA. UA is the one that operates hubs at SFO and LAX, not US. US is the one that chose to decimate their West Coast flying. Why should US benefit at UA''s expense?

 

[ITRADE]

Even if your argument was correct, you have not addressed the ability for US to connect passengers via UA''s flights at SFO or LAX. That very rationale was accepted by DOT when it granted TWA a beyond-perimeter exemption to serve LAX.

 

[USA320Pilot]

JS:

JS said: Then give the route to UA. UA is the one that operates hubs at SFO and LAX, not US. US is the one that chose to decimate their West Coast flying. Why should US benefit at UA's expense?

Chip comments: JS, it's my understanding UA is fighting US's attempt to obtain the DCA to SFO & LAX authority. Specifically, UA is not interested in the route, although that could change, but according to a discussion I had with Dave Siegel UA does not want the competition with IAD to LAX & SFO. Furthermore, because IAD & DCA are considered common airports for antitrust, there could be skepticism from the regulators by providing UA with more of a monopoly if the airline was given the new DCA service.

Finally, I want to reiterate the purpose of this thread and to dispel bad rumors. Contrary to some union reports, there are no plans for further West Coast city closures at this time, which I confirmed again today with US senior management. However, I was also told to expect more US-UA facility integration, similar in scope to NW-CO, to create economies of scale and further reduce each airline's unit costs.

Best regards,

Chip

 

[ITRADE]

Correct, since UA already flies IAD-LAX (so too does AA), the choices for DCA-LAX will not be as many. CO and NW don't have major code-share or direct services at any city outside the perimeter (unless you count NW's minor SEA presence). DL already got SLC. HP has LAS and PHX. F9 has DEN. As has SEA.

The feasible options, from what I can see are as follows:

AA to SFO (very marginal)
AS to LAX
US to SFO
US to LAX
AA to SJC
AS to PDX

And, I'll throw one in to scare the pants off all the major, full service carriers:

WN to SAN.

 

[shaka]

Can you please tell me what is happening on Sept. 10th at sfo. From what I understand is US is moving gates over to the american terminal which is right next to UA''s terminal.

Please let me know.

G. Mack

 

[a320av8r]

No. Moving to UAL terminal, 4 narrow body ane 1 widebody gates.

 

[a320av8r]

As for the SFO move to UAL...
Our terminal has been pegged for demolition for years. With the new international teminal being completed our terminal abutts against it blocking 3 or 4 new gates.
Our terminal will be ramp space.
The move is slated for Sept. 10.

 

[gilbertguy]

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On 7/19/2003 7:00:01 PM N603P wrote:

Several rumors of all the west coast flying being transfered to our code-share partner United.Can anyone elaborate on these rumors? Target date is December 1st.

For what it''s worth, I''ve just heard that anything West of DEN is
gone for US....bring your traytables up to their full locked position, it is going to be a bumpy ride if this is true....

 

[PSA1979]

Where are these rumors coming from? This needs to stop if it is not true. So many peoples lives would be totally destroyed. The people that already lost so much when their bases closed. We need some rumor control at this company!!