City of Dallas tells Delta it can no longer fly out of Love Field

[LD3]

except that I never said this is all about DL - because it is not.

It is about equal and open access for all competitors.

 

WT, you know this is only about DL... going by some of the time stamps on your posts, you have an unhealthy attachment to DL...

 

[WorldTraveler]

and you have an unhealthy addition in trying to argue against me.

The old adage in retail was location, location, location.
 
JCP moved into the abandoned mall in the worst part of town, and got a killer deal on the space.  Two other retail tenants also moved in, and stayed there for years when the market wasn't as promising.
  
Then a new freeway got built with Federal funds, and the area gentrified.  Suddenly they were in the high rent district.
 
What grounds are there to argue that JCP and the other two retailers have to make room for Macy's?....
 
None.  
 
There's no discrimination taking place, just existing leaseholds are being honored.
 
DL can use the Federally funded runways and airway improvements all day long.  They just have no right to park at the City funded terminal.

you make this too easy

the Mall didn't receive federal funds while airports do.

plain and simple there is no justification for DAL to be able to exclude any carrier from serving.

there was nothing written in the WA or the 5 party agreement and all of the posts about the gate leases don't erase DAL's responsibility to meet federal airport access laws.

DL will be at DAL.

 

[blue collar]

The old adage in retail was location, location, location.
 
JCP moved into the abandoned mall in the worst part of town, and got a killer deal on the space.  Two other retail tenants also moved in, and stayed there for years when the market wasn't as promising.
  
Then a new freeway got built with Federal funds, and the area gentrified.  Suddenly they were in the high rent district.
 
What grounds are there to argue that JCP and the other two retailers have to make room for Macy's?....
 
None.  
 
There's no discrimination taking place, just existing leaseholds are being honored.
 
DL can use the Federally funded runways and airway improvements all day long.  They just have no right to park at the City funded terminal.

Yeah, they can fly as much as they want there. They'll just have to park at a handstand.

 

[eolesen]

the Mall didn't receive federal funds while airports do.

plain and simple there is no justification for DAL to be able to exclude any carrier from serving.

there was nothing written in the WA or the 5 party agreement and all of the posts about the gate leases don't erase DAL's responsibility to meet federal airport access laws.

DL will be at DAL

 
The terminal isn't built with Federal funds, and the Feds can't order the airport to do otherwise.  If there were an available gate to lease, it could be leased.  Alas, there isn't one, and DL will have to wait in line for a gate to become available.
 
I have to believe that that the concept of "no room at the inn" was covered in seminary, no?  
 
Plane simple back at ya --> There are no laws which require an airport to accommodate airlines beyond the capacity of the airport's constraints, be it physical or artificial.  That's settled case law from the days of slot controls.
 
Until you can prove otherwise, you're just wasting your time.  
 
My airline chose to plan for the future at DAL.  Yours didn't.  Some day you'll have to accept that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The ones who are wasting their time are those who have tried for over a year to try to argue that DL wouldn't be at DAL.

can you list the days that DL has not been able to serve DAL because of a lack of gates?

Your airline?

You don't have any connection with any airline.

you'll have to learn that federal airport access laws don't require squatting on facilities in order to be able to serve an airport in the future.

you simply don't understand the way the system works and whether DAL has built a box in which it thinks it can use to keep everyone else out but who it wants in, those laws will be changed to ensure equal access for all carriers.

quit wasting your time.... this thread will surpass the WN is coming to ATL thread in which you lead the choir in predicting DL's demise. we all know how that has turned out.

the refrain for this verse will be 10X louder and 100X more obvious that you were wrong.

 

[eolesen]

You are sounding more and more like Rachel Maddow on Tuesdayy night....

Yes, my airline. I'm inside the industry again. Unlike you.

 

[swamt]

laws are not set in stone.

and no one can still prove that the WA or 5 party agreement was intended to shut every other carrier out of DAL except 3.

we can debate this - and it appears we will - until I am proven right that DL will be at DAL because DAL and WN don't want to reopen the case with a lawsuit or change in laws which very well could happen if DL is shut out.

all DL wants for now is to be able to fly competitively to the same markets that any other carrier flies to DL hubs from DAL.

feel free to say I am wrong when that happens.

And continues to avoid when it makes Delta look bad...

 

[Hope777]

So WHY hasnt Delta make any legal moves to this point to ensure they continue to serve DAL after January????

 

[700UW]

What about this?  Where are these flights?
 
News Archive

Delta Plans Expansion at Dallas Love Field

New flights to five destinations would expand competition at airport, add more options for North Texas travelers
Nov 14, 2013
ATLANTA, Nov. 14, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) plans to add 18 daily nonstop flights to five destinations from Dallas Love Field in October 2014, boosting competition in the market and adding an array of new travel options for North Texas travelers.
 
Delta's planned expansion will enhance competition at the airport with new nonstop service to New York-LaGuardia, Los Angeles, Detroit, and Minneapolis-St. Paul. Delta also will add two daily flights to its existing Atlanta service.
Delta will require access to gates at Love Field in order to operate its expanded schedule. Delta has asked the U.S. Department of Justice to allow it to bid on Love Field gates as part of the divestiture of airport assets under a proposed settlement agreement with American Airlines and US Airways.
 
Currently at Love Field, 16 of the 20 gates and more than 95 percent of available seats are controlled by one airline, Southwest Airlines, which transports more passengers in the U.S. than any other carrier. Love Field has one of the highest concentrations of operations controlled by a single airline among the nation's large airports.
 
"Our new service at Dallas Love Field means more competition and options for North Texas travelers, and flights to our international hubs will provide convenient connections to international destinations in Asia, Europe, Latin America and Africa," said Bob Cortelyou, Delta's senior vice president – Network Planning. "Dallas/Fort Worth is a top business market and critical to our strategy of connecting the world's leading cities for business and commerce."
 
The expanded Love Field service builds on Delta's recent growth at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, where it currently operates 45 peak-day flights to eight destinations. Last year, Delta added new nonstop service between DFW and New York-LaGuardia. It also operates nonstop flights from DFW to Atlanta, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Detroit, Salt Lake City, Cincinnati, Memphis and New York-JFK.
 
When the expansion is complete, Delta would operate a total of 68 daily flights in the Dallas/Fort Worth region, including flights at both DFW and Love Field.
 
Delta's expansion will be implemented following changes to the Wright Amendment, which previously restricted Love Field service to Texas, adjacent states and Missouri, Alabama, Kansas and Mississippi. Those restrictions are scheduled to end in October 2014.
 
Delta employs nearly 1,000 people in the Dallas/Fort Worth region in areas including reservations, customer care, airport operations and customer service.

 

[swamt]

 
The terminal isn't built with Federal funds, and the Feds can't order the airport to do otherwise.  If there were an available gate to lease, it could be leased.  Alas, there isn't one, and DL will have to wait in line for a gate to become available.
 
I have to believe that that the concept of "no room at the inn" was covered in seminary, no?  
 
Plane simple back at ya --> There are no laws which require an airport to accommodate airlines beyond the capacity of the airport's constraints, be it physical or artificial.  That's settled case law from the days of slot controls.
 
Until you can prove otherwise, you're just wasting your time.  
 
My airline chose to plan for the future at DAL.  Yours didn't.  Some day you'll have to accept that.

See this is exactly what I mean.  He has no clue where the funds came to build this airport to get it ready for post W/A traffic.  I bet he doesn't even know where the most funds came from.  He also knows nothing about who was in charge, controlled, and made all the decisions during the build.  That is why he continues to look like a moron, he has no clue what he is talking about when it comes to DAL LF post W/A.  It is in fact a very different situation.  He very well may start to understand once the secondary airport is built in Atlanta and Delta is trying to block as it would put them in the exact same boat AA is here in N. Tx. with these two airports, and lets not forget the 3rd airport in FW.  

 

[swamt]

So WHY hasnt Delta make any legal moves to this point to ensure they continue to serve DAL after January????

Because they are scared of the outcome, and will be told they have to leave LF...

 

[LD3]

Delta has asked the U.S. Department of Justice to allow it to bid on Love Field gates as part of the divestiture of airport assets under a proposed settlement agreement with American Airlines and US Airways.
 

If DL were to gain access to DAL, could AA go back to court and argue that they are now at a major disatvantage as the only major not serving DAL even though they hub @ DFW?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yes, my airline. I'm inside the industry again. Unlike you.

you don't get a paycheck from an airline.

you are not in the airline industry.

If DL were to gain access to DAL, could AA go back to court and argue that they are now at a major disatvantage as the only major not serving DAL even though they hub @ DFW?

maybe but probably not.

AA agreed to leave DAL in order to get its merger approved.

DL didn't agree to be shut out of DAL while others got in.

FWIW, I was against the AA/US merger provision that required AA to vacate DAL and have said so.
I am also against restricting int'l flying from DAL or from allowing any carrier to serve either DAL or DFW.

but AA and WN agreed to stay out of DAL and DFW respectively. No other carrier made similar choices.

 

[eolesen]

If DL were to gain access to DAL, could AA go back to court and argue that they are now at a major disatvantage as the only major not serving DAL even though they hub @ DFW?

 
If DL wants to make the argument that they can't adequately compete from DFW, it would make for an interesting scenario...
 
Problem is that it was a settlement agreement, and not an order.  Not sure how you'd appeal something agreed to voluntarily.

 

[eolesen]

you don't get a paycheck from an airline.

you are not in the airline industry.
 

 
Do you know that for an unshakable fact?...
 
I'm looking at my ID right now, and it most definitely has an airline logo on it.