Citing shutdown, DoJ requests stay in fight over U.S. Air, AMR deal

[jimntx]

AA screwed over Nashville years ago when they shut down the hub. Nashville spent millions on runways, terminals, and buildings for AA. Now it's a ghost town. No wonder TN hates AA.

Ghost town? We have 6 nonstops/day DFW-BNA and return. We have 2 MIA-BNA (1 AE). There are also 10 AE flights daily ORD-BNA and 9 AE daily LGA-BNA, and 2 mainline/day LAX-BNA. And, it seems that every flight I work to BNA is always full or near to it.

 

[eolesen]

Y'all are missing the point on the lawsuit, folks....

It has nothing to do with AA pulling out of markets, it has to do with the lack of competition that could evolve.

The Texas decision is interesting, in that I didn't think any of those markets would face losing service, and keeping the HDQ in FTW was the plan all along. Heck, Parker's already moved from what we're hearing, right?...

What Texas failed to do was get any assurances that fares weren't going to rise, or that frequencies would be cut below the current rate. The only references I've seen say "daily service" which could be anywhere from one nonstop per day to a round-robin that hits a couple of cities once a day... Maybe there's more meat to the actual agreement than what's been made public...

That said, there's nothing enforceable in this type of an agreement, nor is there any obvious recourse.

If AA pulls a DL and kills off service post-merger, the State can't undo the merger. They have no financial guarantees, they have nothing to really hold AA accountable. They can make a stink about AA going back on their word, but it won't stop AA from saying "sorry, there isn't enough demand" if they happen to raise fares to somewhere between "OMG" and "highway robbery"...

Maybe the State wanted to make nice with AA before WN pulls out of all those inside-the-perimeter markets that they are likely to gut when they need gate space over at DAL post-Wright? Or maybe they're pretty certain the merger will be undone on the issues in other places, and now they have political cover to say that it wasn't their fault?...


In a rare agreement with WT, don't ever try to apply logic to a political decision.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Texas didn't get assurances on pricing because they have no authority over that area...and the Feds deregulated domestic pricing 34 years ago. that is why the DOJ has concerns about removing service because levels of service are the only way to keep fares down.
The most effective agreement to keep service and employment was what NW and MSP had and ultimately DL paid off the loans with the requirements even tho they kept the hub.

 

[Jacobin777]

Texas didn't get assurances on pricing because they have no authority over that area...and the Feds deregulated domestic pricing 34 years ago. that is why the DOJ has concerns about removing service because levels of service are the only way to keep fares down.
The most effective agreement to keep service and employment was what NW and MSP had and ultimately DL paid off the loans with the requirements even tho they kept the hub.

MSP is large is large enough with connecting + O&D pax where it really wasn't going to get dehubbed IMHO. Can't say that about other cities.

Regarding the lollipops AA+US is proposing, as I mentioned in the another thread here:

"We know how this will end in a few years if the merger goes through.

History is a great guide."

 

[AirwAr]

...
The airlines gave Texas what it wanted and Texas withdrew based on the agreement.
....

Texas didn't get anything that the airline wasn't planning to do anyway. 3 years is nothing as a requirement to maintain 22 markets...which AA would have done anyway because it's going to take at least 3 years for Parker and his America West team to realize how to run world class airline.

The reality is that the Texas AG will be running for Governor and US reminded him that political contributions could really help at that point. Not to mention the thousands of US/AA employees in Texas that would vote.

 

[wings396]

MSP is large is large enough with connecting + O&D pax where it really wasn't going to get dehubbed IMHO. Can't say that about other cities.

Regarding the lollipops AA+US is proposing, as I mentioned in the another thread here:

"We know how this will end in a few years if the merger goes through.

History is a great guide."

Please look into your crystal ball, and tell all of us how this will end. I would like to plan ahead, and while you are at it, may I have the winning numbers for the Powerball? Hell if I can hit that, none of this merger nonsense will matter at all.
You did state in a previous post that you didn't work for AA or within the industry, correct? Amazing how all of these armchair CEO's have such an insight to a business that they have never worked a day in.

 

[Jacobin777]

Please look into your crystal ball, and tell all of us how this will end. I would like to plan ahead, and while you are at it, may I have the winning numbers for the Powerball? Hell if I can hit that, none of this merger nonsense will matter at all.
You did state in a previous post that you didn't work for AA or within the industry, correct? Amazing how all of these armchair CEO's have such an insight to a business that they have never worked a day in.

So, you're tellling me when DL+NW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when WN+FL merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when UA+CO merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when AA+TW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

Speaking of "armchair CEO's"...are you the CEO of AA? US? ANY company? Do you have managment experience at an airline? At any company?

Have you taken any economics classes? Business classes?

 

[Rogallo]

Texas didn't get anything that the airline wasn't planning to do anyway. 3 years is nothing as a requirement to maintain 22 markets...which AA would have done anyway because it's going to take at least 3 years for Parker and his America West team to realize how to run ruin a world class airline.

The reality is that the Texas AG will be running for Governor and US reminded him that political contributions could really help at that point. Not to mention the thousands of US/AA employees in Texas that would vote.

Corrected your spelling error!!!

 

[AirwAr]

Corrected your spelling error!!!

LOL...Thanks!

 

[WorldTraveler]

MSP is large is large enough with connecting + O&D pax where it really wasn't going to get dehubbed IMHO. Can't say that about other cities.

economics in both cases made and will make the final decision. MSP is central to DL's network today just as Texas and DFW are and will be for AA.

It was all political promises.... but Texas wanted it in writing.... for whatever it is worth.

Texas didn't get anything that the airline wasn't planning to do anyway. 3 years is nothing as a requirement to maintain 22 markets...which AA would have done anyway because it's going to take at least 3 years for Parker and his America West team to realize how to run world class airline.

The reality is that the Texas AG will be running for Governor and US reminded him that political contributions could really help at that point. Not to mention the thousands of US/AA employees in Texas that would vote.

So, you're tellling me when DL+NW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when WN+FL merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when UA+CO merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when AA+TW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

Speaking of "armchair CEO's"...are you the CEO of AA? US? ANY company? Do you have managment experience at an airline? At any company?

Have you taken any economics classes? Business classes?

and it is exactly because of this track record that the DOJ has concerns not necessarily because of any fault of AA/US other than going last in the process....

but AA and US both made statements that add gravity to the DOJ's concerns.

 

[Jacobin777]

and it is exactly because of this track record that the DOJ has concerns not necessarily because of any fault of AA/US other than going last in the process....

but AA and US both made statements that add gravity to the DOJ's concerns.

According to some, probably no one from the DOJ have run an airline or have worked in the airline industry, thus they would be "armchair CEO's" as well. What do they know? :unsure:

Indeed, some of the comments from US executives themselves have made statements which support the DOJ's claims. Had it been most of AA's senior management team which was going to be running the show, there might have been a chance of either some kind of negotiation or a better chance of AA+US winning the case.

Regardless, we can only guess what's going to happen. I will say the DOJ+states have a 60%-70% chance of winning. That's my guess.

 

[IORFA]

My guess? I say there is 100% chance the trial never starts. I feel that the defections are just starting. The dumb case just started its public unraveling. I see the merger consummated before the end of the year.

 

[robbedagain]

So, you're tellling me when DL+NW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when WN+FL merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when UA+CO merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when AA+TW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

Speaking of "armchair CEO's"...are you the CEO of AA? US? ANY company? Do you have managment experience at an airline? At any company?

Have you taken any economics classes? Business classes?

mem dehubbed... wn stops srq flights not sure what other cities.. still maintain the fl bag fees...
ua leased all 18 of their slots... cle looses flights... tw disappears stl is dehubbed tlv gone....
also cvg loses more flts.. etc the list goes on... just a matter of time to see what happens btwn now and say jan if the trial does proceed with no agreement in place

 

[wings396]

So, you're tellling me when DL+NW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when WN+FL merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when UA+CO merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

You're tellling me when AA+TW merged cities/routes/flights weren't cut?

Speaking of "armchair CEO's"...are you the CEO of AA? US? ANY company? Do you have managment experience at an airline? At any company?

Have you taken any economics classes? Business classes?

Well yes, I have taken a few classes in my day. I have also been in the industry for 37 years now. Never hit the CEO level, but not many achieve that level from within nowadays. What happened at other airlines, isn't a given in this case since it is very likely to be the final chapter in consolidation. I'm sure some other smaller mergers could happen, but nothing to compare with the formation of the big 3. Expansion has been mentioned several times with this merger, so we shall see. Perhaps AA & US can regain some of what they have lost over the last 10 years.
Furthermore, if your not in the business, what the hell do you care who cuts what. I believe that you may have some underlying interests here.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The problem with the word "winning" is that no one has said what the real goal is. If it means eventually merging then I think AA n US will "win." If win means merge with no concessions then the chances are slim. the question is how much AA US will have to give and how far the DOJ will go before the judge says they are off limits.