China Flights- will it happen ?

[phlus2]

What are you talking about? PEK-PHL arrives at 1600....meaning 4pm.....meaning transatlantics rush. See below.

Why are you talking about this? This China thing is so far off in the future that to think they already know what the actual schedule will be and that it is set in stone is ridiculous! And if US can't fine one gate for the China flight in Philly then there is no hope of them being able to solve any of the other thousands of operational nightmares that exist.

 

[PHX PHLyer]

Why are you talking about this? This China thing is so far off in the future that to think they already know what the actual schedule will be and that it is set in stone is ridiculous! And if US can't fine one gate for the China flight in Philly then there is no hope of them being able to solve any of the other thousands of operational nightmares that exist.

Uhhh...it was a requirement by the DOT to submit the schedule with the application. And yes, I would think that the schedule would be set in stone...with maybe only variations by 1/2 hour or less if they were to actually change it. When you decide to apply for a route like this you would have to know when you would be flying the flight to know how to plan your resources and how it would affect your daily operation. It's not that far off to know the schedule you will fly when you apply....

Here is the DOT's request

Proposed schedules should contain flight numbers, complete routings from origin to
destination (including behind-gateway and beyond-gateway points and elapsed time
for services), departure and arrival times in local time (with time difference between
local time and time at point of origin), equipment types (including seat configuration
by class of service and the cargo capacity available), days scheduled, classes of
service offered, and the limitations, if any, on the number of seats available for each
class of serviced or the cargo capacity available.

 

[OCCATC]

get the pilots trained WELL in advance and get a maintenance track record BEFORE the day you leave for Beijing.

Good idea

And certify it at the highest ETOPS standard (North Atlantic) and add the Polar ETOPS later.

 

[sfb]

remember it was not this managemnt team who screwed phl. infact, they have tried to bulid phl up but have had to do alot of damge control due to previous mangement.

Really? Let's compare November 2006 to November 2007. In November 2006, US offered 162 daily mainline departures (158 US + 4 HP) and 288 daily Express departures from PHL, for a total of 450 daily departures. In November 2007, US offers 128 mainline daily departures and 262 daily Express departures for a total of 390. This is while the operation was fully under the control of Tempe -- and yet mainline is down 20% and Express is down 10% year-over-year. That doesn't look like building PHL up to me.

wn can't always get what they want neither. there are plans to fly to tlv,ist,moscow,beijing,tokyo,birmingham,dubai, mumbai(bombay) and others but this only can happen if these gates stay intl gates and not domestic gates.

The problem is that US Airways has no other hubs which could support service to any of those cities. If PHX-Tokyo were such a goldmine, JAL or ANA would already be flying it. LH is adding SEA, YYC, and MCO, but not PHX -- even though they are alliance partners with US.

I would contend that US should be given a better deal than PHL is trying to give them. I've said it before and I'll say it again, US put some of its OWN money into the construction of the International Terminals. Did WN??....no...they weren't even serving PHL at that point. And DL is trying to say that they "want" to move to lower costs, etc. BS!! They were asked to move for WN, which was fine for them because they go to a better terminal, whatever. They probably didn't really care if they moved or not. But then all of the sudden they realize that it could compromise US's Transatlantic operation (i.e., put less pressure on their JFK operation) and all of the sudden it is so important for them to move. And did DL put money into the international terminal.....highly doubtful.

US put money into Terminal A-West. Delta is going into A-East. In any event, it is clear that PHL has offered a solution to US Airways -- building more gates in an extension of A-West. That's been rejected out-of-hand, which says to me that it's about more than just providing more gates. The airport has been very forthcoming in making the solutions they've offered public. All we hear from US Airways is nebulous assertions that they offered their own alternatives.

There is a PRESENT demand for international flights out of PHL, so they should not put domestic operations into the international terminal when there is a current need for more international gates. I find it laughable that the city is even contemplating this....what is one of the biggest factors that can contribute to economic gains for a city?? Having an airport with a large array of non-stop cities served, especially international routes. That brings foreign investment to the city, overseas headquarters, possibly new corporate headquarters......its a great thing for the city.

There's one glaring problem with this assertion, and that is the plain fact that about a third of those international flights are seasonal. Business doesn't stop in the fall when US Airways discontinues service to its seasonal destinations. For half of the year, the international terminal is underutilized, since US only operates 12 daily transatlantic departures in the off season.

What is a bigger gain for the city....a few more daily flights to FLL, TPA, MCO, MHT, RDU, MDW??? Or Beijing, Istanbul, Moscow, Tokyo, Tel Aviv, Mumbai, Delhi...you get the point.

Well, a transatlantic 757 that operates six months of the year actually offers fewer annual seats than a single year-round daily 737 round-trip. And frankly, US Airways offers a horrid, unreliable transatlantic product -- shades of Tower Air. After experiencing US's PHL-Europe service this past summer, what business would be insane enough to locate in Philly? To get to TLV, who wouldn't just drive to EWR?

Here's a response from US about the article:

...

This would be unfortunate, but it’s a business reality. If the airport dedicates three international widebody gates to domestic narrowbody flying, there just won’t be enough international gates at PHL to operate reliably. We know what it’s like to try to run an international operation at PHL without enough gates. We tried “nestingâ€￾ flights at PHL this past summer to work around the gating issue, with very poor results (a 30 percent on-time performance for nested flights). Just do the math: if we ran an unreliable operation this summer, imagine the impacts if we try to run a larger one with three fewer gates.

Which, of course, begs the question of how Continental can even dream of operating almost all of its roughly 50 summer transatlantic flights out of 19 international gates at EWR. 17 gates at PHL are too few for 20 transatlantic turns?

 

[cynic]

Good idea

And certify it at the highest ETOPS standard (North Atlantic) and add the Polar ETOPS later.

A340 is a quad, what does ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards) have to do with this discussion?

 

[nycbusdriver]

A340 is a quad, what does ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards) have to do with this discussion?

I believe in their typical, rocket-surgeon manner, the FAA is talking about making 3- and 4-engine transports subject to at least some of the ETOPS rules. Yet another civil "servant" trying to justify his paycheck, no doubt.

 

[OCCATC]

A340 is a quad, what does ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards) have to do with this discussion?

Well on quick notice this.. I called it ETOPS because it is becomming too cloudy as to how all the final rules are shaking out. In any case we need to do proving runs for both etc. Might as well do the North Atlantic first

The FAA tasked the Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee (ARAC) in
June 2000 to codify the existing policies and practices to be
applicable to all airplanes, regardless of the number of engines, by
developing comprehensive ETOPS standards for 14 CFR parts 25, 33, 121,
and 135, as appropriate. The FAA also tasked ARAC to develop ETOPS
operational requirements for diversion times greater than 180 minutes
up to whatever extent may be justified.
During this same period, the FAA developed guidance for polar
operations. These operations became more commonplace with the opening
up of Siberian airspace following the fall of the former Soviet Union.
Although not defined as ETOPS, this guidance has been expanded in
today's rule to include both the North and South Polar Areas and has
been incorporated into the overall ETOPS rule package. Significantly,
this aspect of the rule applies to all turbine-powered multi-engine
operations including all-cargo operations.
Today's rule codifies and expands existing FAA policy and route
authorizations for all part 121 two-engine airplanes conducting ETOPS
beyond certain distances from an adequate airport. This final rule also
extends most requirements previously applicable only to part 121 two-
engine airplanes to a limited number of part 121 passenger-carrying
three- and four-engine airplane operations and applies the same
limitations to comparable part 135 operations.

Also see the latest articles at philly.com



Specter blasts US Airways over China route

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/home...e_dispute_.html


Southwest unveils new Philadelphia flights

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/home...ia_flights.html

 

[US1YFARE]

WN is giving extra FF points for higher fares--even they get it. US on the other hand, provides no "reward" to FF's traveling on Y fares

Tempe probably has no idea what "Business Select" was on US--remember, they didn't catch flight numbers that were no longer used on the East because of disasters.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Specter blasts US Airways over China route

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/home...e_dispute_.html

That URL came up as a dead link for me.




I found the story here:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/bu...g/11093676.html

 

[US1YFARE]

That article really does show what amateurs Parker and Kirby are.

 

[PHX PHLyer]

Should WN be given more gates to accomodate new flights when they have a history of pulling out of markets from PHL?

 

[US1YFARE]

Should WN be given more gates to accomodate new flights when they have a history of pulling out of markets from PHL?

I hope WN gets everything they've asked for. PHL should play hardball with US and I plan to write my good Senator reminding him that many of his voters are as bitter towards US as he is.

 

[fr8tmastr]

I hope WN gets everything they've asked for. PHL should play hardball with US and I plan to write my good Senator reminding him that many of his voters are as bitter towards US as he is.

While I agree with all you say, please remember, while the Senators from PA put the smack down on Doug, they will sink Airways and put all of us out of work. Meanwhile Doug will be down at the bar counting the tens of millions he got when he pulled his golden rip cord. What we need is a way to get rid of team Tempe while trying to salvage this airline.

Doug has started an ego war with politicians and I am afraid the only ones that will get the venom will be the employees.

 

[Travels2mch]

I plan to write my good Senator reminding him that many of his voters are as bitter towards US as he is.

You can do that right from his website.
http://specter.senate.gov/public/index.cfm...ction=Home.Home
I just emailed him to thank him. There's a link to the audio and video of todays meeting....very interesting. I think dougies actions in the western side of the state are going to continue to affect him. Specter was blatent in his feelings about the dougweiser and usairways.

 

[US1YFARE]

While I agree with all you say, please remember, while the Senators from PA put the smack down on Doug, they will sink Airways and put all of us out of work. Meanwhile Doug will be down at the bar counting the tens of millions he got when he pulled his golden rip cord. What we need is a way to get rid of team Tempe while trying to salvage this airline.

Doug has started an ego war with politicians and I am afraid the only ones that will get the venom will be the employees.

Senator Specter is not going to sink US and I don't want anyone to lose their job. If Doug pulls out of PHL, which will never happen, the airline dies and he knows it. Pull down the international service and the airline dies. Let them cancel the China service--they probably never would have flown it anyway. And for Pete's sake, who wants to spend that long on a USAirways flying trailer?