Challenge

[High Speed Steel]

Jim Little and his band of appointee's run this union and you know it. Rejecting the T/A simply sends them back to offer a cookie to one of the rejecting groups. My bet is the current O/H AMT gets more than .81 in a raise and this passes.

Eagle has been growing on the domestic side in ASM's and AA shrinking for over 15 years now. If and when the T/A is rejected this ASM change will NOT be one of the items changed when Jim Little returns his puupets to the negotiating table. Neither will the new classification, the loss of defined pension for a new hire.

Just as in 1983 and the B-Scale, the new hire will decide what the profession is worth by either becoming employed or not. Once the terms of emlpoyment are explained then the new hire can either refuse or take the job. If you want to save the profession, you would have to stand outside the employment office and tell them not to take the job. The sad truth is if AA can hire AMT's for low wages, and very little benefits then that is what the profession is worth.

Once the immigration reform happens in this country and all the illegals are made legal, they will be offered welfare for training in exchange for becoming legal and many of them we be replacing most of us in this industry. The manuals will be will be written in both English and Espanol.

I dont hear anyone trying to "peddle" this T/A as adequate. Most YES voters are quietly wating for their ballot. It is only the ANTI-Crowd that we hear and they are loud but are they the majority?

I think we agree that the failures in this T/A are many.

Here is a real CHALLENGE for you...

...If the T/A is rejected, please list the flaws you honestly think the TWU will change or correct. Then list the flaws you think will remain in place. I have yet to hear a real plan of how to fix this POS, or even a real belief as to what will get fixed once this is rejected.

All I hear is every one clamoring about what a POS this is and how it will destroy the profession.

Tell us your plan and what demands you would take forward as must be corrected flaws in this agreement. Give us a specific list of what it takes for you to be satisfied, and then list how many of those in your list will be fixed by sending the TWU back to negotiations. I would be very interested to hear specifics from you or anyone else that holds elected office drawing a paycheck from this union while clamoring about how the same union is destroying the profession.

Good post Informer. We have the same opinions regarding this POS if rejected. It is so true about the cookie thing and it cracks me up that so many here just don't get it....

 

[Hopeful]

Any idea what that means. Is it that we will accept $7.25 an hour for cleaners just to keep the dues coming in?

I hate to say it, but it's either the TWU accepts these new classifications or the company will outsource everything.
And yes, of course, union dues have alot to do with it.

 

[TWU informer]

The one slogan that gets me thinking is this one:

"We are the new business plAAn"
"we are the TWU.

This one must mean the new business plan that creates a new AMT classification, removes Defined Pensions for new Hires, and eliminates Retirement Medical.

By the Way, over on the TWU514.org blog Jenni Proctor-Timms admits these slogans were her idea.

She is running for RE-election to Financial Secretary if you wish to support more slogans.

Jenni Proctor Timms says

I see many good questions regarding the T/A that was released. I just want to help with a few clarifying remarks. The T/A that is on the floor, is not the entire contract. Please wait until the final T/A (that has the local bug) has been released before assuming that some of the things you’re asking for have not been included.

For Franks question about Little; he no longer stands as the ATD director (as he was in 03), so he no longer guides negotiations or the contract. I know many wanted a re-vote in 2003, but I’m not sure the outcome would have changed at that time. In regard to the “slogans” posted across the base; I want to apologize personally if they are embarrassing to you.

The slogans were my idea in order for my brothers and sisters to come together in a time we needed it most. They weren’t meant to belittle anyone, just to build solidarity within the local. I love all my brothers and sisters and would never want any of them to be ashamed at an attempt to bring us unity. I am sorry they made you feel that way Frank and that was not my intention at all. I also want you to understand that nobody is trying to “sell” us this contract. That is why you, the informed member, gets the opportunity to vote. The negotiating committee is giving you the voice on whether this is what you want, or not. I hope that all of you use your voice and VOTE. I would also like to hear from the membership any good things that the T/A might offer once it’s read in it’s entirety.

 

[The Goose]

Good post Informer. We have the same opinions regarding this POS if rejected. It is so true about the cookie thing and it cracks me up that so many here just don't get it....

Bravo Zulu, Mr. High Speed Steel - you DO get it!

 

[OgieJFK]

A double dip recession 10% unemployment, this country and company run by fools I just wanna hang in there to retire I dont care any more about your fight bad on the blood pressure. We are not gonna win never have never will. I would be just fine without a union at all vote YES

Thank god we didn't have more people like you on D-Day....we'd be flying a axis flag over the white house. I dislike the TWU and even I would hate to see how AA would treat us without a union. This TA is as bad as a date with Joran Van Der Sloot.

 

[frontline]

I love that the Van Der Sloot comment is made both here and on a story over at the DMN. Can you at least get original with your talking points, please?

And come on, comparing our contract negotiations to World War II? That is ridiculously over dramatic and beyond a bad analogy.

 

[OgieJFK]

I love that the Van Der Sloot comment is made both here and on a story over at the DMN. Can you at least get original with your talking points, please?

And come on, comparing our contract negotiations to World War II? That is ridiculously over dramatic and beyond a bad analogy.

Why should I reserve myself to using such a creative, clever, and witty comment to just one forum. How is it not original when i'm the person that posted the comment on DMN. Nice try tho.


World War II analogy to much for you? How about using Korea, Nam, Iraq? This is and has been an attack our our livelihoods. I'm sure most of my fellow union brothers and sisters dont think it's such a bad analogy.

 

[jetmechjer]

The one slogan that gets me thinking is this one:

"We are the new business plAAn"
"we are the TWU.

This one must mean the new business plan that creates a new AMT classification, removes Defined Pensions for new Hires, and eliminates Retirement Medical.

By the Way, over on the TWU514.org blog Jenni Proctor-Timms admits these slogans were her idea.

She is running for RE-election to Financial Secretary if you wish to support more slogans.

FLIGHTPLAAN 2020

AA's plan is to have you working for the some money and less benefits in the yerar 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :blink: :blink:

 

[The Janitor]

Back in 2003 we took concessions to "save" the company from filing bankruptcy. These concessions were life changing, however without any snap back clause regaining what was sacrificed would be a long battle ahead of us.

What we face in this tentative agreement is not your ordinary concession contract... it is a PROFESSION KILLER! If this tentative agreement passes it will ensure an industry changing shift detrimental to our entire craft and profession. The language this tentative agreement carries will set the stage for damaging our profession as we know it. If passed it will spread like a cancer throughout the industry and we will be known as those who failed to stand their ground for all, those who are retiring, those still employed and those coming after us.

As TRUE union men and women it is our responsibility to stand together and protect our craft & profession. I would like to see why anyone would vote yes for this insult to our profession. No aliases, if you are voting yes state your reasoning. I would like to see what would make someone purposely sell out a skilled profession they entered freely because of a passion they have for doing what we do.

Yours is the most intelligent post I have read on here in quite some time. Thanks.

Those arguing against your post have no merit. To suggest one should vote for the TA is just wrong. Rewarding Mr Little by agreeing with him is not the answer. Also, for those short sighted enough to suggest that this profession has been killed, what they are implicitly saying is that the professional has been killed. Nonsense.

AMT's are professionals and they exist today with an incredible amount of technical knowledge due to training investments and professional education. It simply is unacceptable to say that the profession is dead.

The AMT's have the power to decide its professional work life. I'm not sure of the path that is needed but I can say 100% that the correct path isn't to follow Little's path. You are all bright enough to know where that goes.

 

[eolesen]

I find it curious how so many of you define "the profession" by your pay and benefits....

I've always felt that "the profession" define what you do, and how you go about doing it... not how much you're able to get paid for doing it.

 

[TWU informer]

I find it curious how so many of you define "the profession" by your pay and benefits....

I've always felt that "the profession" define what you do, and how you go about doing it... not how much you're able to get paid for doing it.

Ranks right up there with advocating a NO vote without giving any specifics of what needs to be fixed and comparing that demand to what the TWU might actaully get changed with a NO vote. It is almost like a blind demand to follow to the abyss and when someone ask for specifics and a plan, ridiclue them as incompetent and compare the situation to Jordan Van Der Sloot to quickly attract attention away from the issue at hand. What in the hell does an alledged woman killer have to do with our profession, negotiations, or our bread and butter on the table?

Again, can anyone list the specifics that need corrected in this T/A...all of them.

And then honestly share with us which of these items you think the TWU negotiators will get corrected with a NO vote?

Is this all some bluff that we are playing to get a better deal than we are currently looking at?

Are we professional enough to talk specifics without cartoons advocating No votes?

Is the demand for a NO vote comparable to a TWU Slogan that really has no meaning or direction but makes the leader feel good because it sounds good when he/she repeats the slogan while going to sleep instead of counting sheep?

Come on this is not that difficult of a challenge if you are really strongly opposed and have read the highlights of the proposal.

According to a letter I recenlty received in the mail from Steve Luis we will not be voting until August so there might be some more negotiations happening given the knownTWU History, they might actually sweeten the pie for you between now and vote time if you would get specific. I have already seen specific changes to the 49 and under retirement issue.

 

[iluvaa]

Thats been my point to people I talk to, what do they think will get better if we vote no. I say just more time without retro. I was not here early 1990's but I was told we voted down a TA and the next one which was worse got voted in. Any no voters care to comment on THAT ONE.

 

[OgieJFK]

Ranks right up there with advocating a NO vote without giving any specifics of what needs to be fixed and comparing that demand to what the TWU might actaully get changed with a NO vote. It is almost like a blind demand to follow to the abyss and when someone ask for specifics and a plan, ridiclue them as incompetent and compare the situation to Jordan Van Der Sloot to quickly attract attention away from the issue at hand.

What I ridiculed him on was the defeatist attitude in his post. If he was looking for specifics on which way to vote...he didn't look hard enough. All it takes is 5 minutes to find all that information. This is also not the proper forum to discuss any "plan". Too many company eyes on this forum.

What in the hell does an alledged woman killer have to do with our profession, negotiations, or our bread and butter on the table?

They are both just that....killers. This TA is a job killer for most of the fleet and mechs employees. The only union people that make out on this TA are the people that can retire and the TWU. I'll use fleet as my job killer example. This TA takes away dayline cabin cleaning from fleet and displacing them from their jobs. The new classification dayline cabin cleaner will replace them at $7.25per hour. I'm sure at that pay rate the company will hire as many as they can. The TWU doesn't care cause they'll probably hit them up for FSC scale union dues. All the current non able to retire FSC has to look forward for by voting yes is

1) stagnation on thier seniority

2) losing bid spots

3) losing retirement medical(for some)

4) and maybe, but most likely, getting sold out on future contracts by the new classification.

Again, can anyone list the specifics that need corrected in this T/A...all of them

The two big things for me are retirement medical and the new classification. It's BS that a person that worked over 20+ years at a company would lose out on their retirement medical , but someone hired 5 years ago at 45 years old would get it. The new classification should have their own contract. After those are settled we can start working on money.

And then honestly share with us which of these items you think the TWU negotiators will get corrected with a NO vote?

Both TA's....the retirement medical.

I have already seen specific changes to the 49 and under retirement issue.

I look forward to seeing these changes. I've heard nothing about it but will make a couple of calls tomorrow.

 

[TWU informer]

Increase medical life-time maximum from $300,000 to $500,000

Employees who are less than age 44 as of 12/31/2010 will have the option to roll the prefunding refund into a 401(k) account or take a cash payout- those electing cash payouts they will be received by December 15, 2010.

Employees who are 45, 46, 47, 48 or 49 years of age as of 12/31/10 will have the same options as outlined above or the option to not receive a prefunding refund and have sick leave credits added to the employee’s existing sick leave bank, at the time of retirement, for retiree medical as follows:
Age 49 as of 12/31/10: 840 hours of sick leave credits
Age 48 as of 12/31/10: 720 hours of sick leave credits
Age 47 as of 12/31/10: 630 hours of sick leave credits
Age 46 as of 12/31/10: 540 hours of sick leave credits
Age 45 as of 12/31/10: 480 hours of sick leave credits

At the time of retirement, the company will look back at the employee’s sick leave usage since 5/5/2010 and will reinstate to the sick bank, those paid sick hours utilized as part of any single illness or injury that used forty-five (45) consecutive workdays or more of sick time.

 

[jetmechjer]

Increase medical life-time maximum from $300,000 to $500,000

Employees who are less than age 44 as of 12/31/2010 will have the option to roll the prefunding refund into a 401(k) account or take a cash payout- those electing cash payouts they will be received by December 15, 2010.

Employees who are 45, 46, 47, 48 or 49 years of age as of 12/31/10 will have the same options as outlined above or the option to not receive a prefunding refund and have sick leave credits added to the employee’s existing sick leave bank, at the time of retirement, for retiree medical as follows:
Age 49 as of 12/31/10: 840 hours of sick leave credits
Age 48 as of 12/31/10: 720 hours of sick leave credits
Age 47 as of 12/31/10: 630 hours of sick leave credits
Age 46 as of 12/31/10: 540 hours of sick leave credits
Age 45 as of 12/31/10: 480 hours of sick leave credits

At the time of retirement, the company will look back at the employee’s sick leave usage since 5/5/2010 and will reinstate to the sick bank, those paid sick hours utilized as part of any single illness or injury that used forty-five (45) consecutive workdays or more of sick time.

I thought negotiations were over. Just like TWU trying to polish a turd!!! Rub all you want!! But you can not polish a TURD!!! An anti union contract brought to you by a dues collection agency in disguise as a real union. As the International and the AA CEO's are making money angels in piles of 100's we are trying to save our retiree medical. Whats wrong with this picture? I dont want someone making 100 to 300 thousand a year and perks telling me this is a good deal. Stuff it!! I AM A NO VOTE!!!