Calling ALL Cockroaches - Customers Only

[KCFlyer]

The misconception is that you need to continue to offer the bargain basement fares. I say you don't--or at least not to the degree as being done today. What good is it to fill a flight with fares which ALL lose money?

You can fill a plane, and still lose money. If the business traveler is not around to pick up the slack, you're in much deeper trouble than if we were there.

AA, CO, UA, and DL have a better understanding of the revenue premium contributed by frequent business travelers.

Here's the problems with that Art - AA,CO,UA,DL all do the same thing - evidenced by the fact that they are all losing money.

The other part of the problem is that corporate travel departments have learned to game the system - odds are good that the "high yield business" traveler is bringing in a lower yield...sometimes even a negative yield. They certainly are not, for the most part, bringing in the top dollars that they were 10 to 15 years ago.

Crandall's value pricing, had it been followed, would have still brought in the 'drearies and normals' (sorry, just can't get over the arrogance of Bobbie's post) - even though the advance purchase fares would have risen slightly. My guess is that there would have been an INCREASE in business travelers because the top end fares were about half the going rate.

Bottom line, an airline cannot afford to alienate the VFF's OR the "drearies and normals". Of all the airlines that seem to understand this, it's the "discount" carriers - the Southwests, Airtrans, and JetBlues of the world. There's a happy median there. And it's going to involve a little sacrifice from BOTH the VFF's and the drearies and normals.

 

[Singleflyer]

You are correct they are not raping me, the one flight I took was about $1200.00 for PIT-SEA one way.

But they are 'raping" others who still are paying those crazy fares and offering no service, I just stopped giving them my business because I was tired of being over charged.

 

[ggiby]

You are correct they are not raping me, the one flight I took was about $1200.00 for PIT-SEA one way.

But they are 'raping" others who still are paying those crazy fares and offering no service, I just stopped giving them my business because I was tired of being over charged.

New fees lift US Airways stock
Plans for fresh passenger charges wow Street, but customer advocates recommend boycott

USairways is not the only one w/ fees...just saw a piece on CNN AMerican is doing the same... so only SWA will be left so go fly SWA...

Wall Street likes the idea...so everyone get use to it


by Dawn Gilbertson - Jun. 14, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
US Airways' battered stock got a lift Friday as Wall Street applauded its flight cutbacks and new fees.
At the same time, a frequent-flier advocacy group recommended a boycott of the airline in the wake of sweeping changes announced Thursday.
The Tempe airline's shares rose 6.3 percent, to close at $2.86 a share. They are still off 80 percent for the year.
Merrill Lynch airline analyst Michael Linenberg upgraded the stock from neutral to buy, saying the airline's moves should quell concerns US Airways is on the brink of bankruptcy.
He still projects a large loss for the airline this year given the unprecedented run-up in fuel prices. But he said the sweeping actions unveiled this week by US Airways - from a sharp reduction in flights in Las Vegas to charging for soda, checked bags and frequent-flier tickets - and similar moves by other carriers "will begin to staunch the losses at current fuel prices."
He said US Airways' cash position is strong, with no big-day payments looming until 2014 and praised the track record of the airline's management team during the industry's last crisis, the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
US Airways CEO Doug Parker, then running America West, was the first to secure a government-backed loan.
Lehman Brothers airline analyst Gary Chase wrote in a research note Friday that US Airways joins the growing list of airlines "being very proactive in responding to high fuel prices."
He said Parker's plans to buy $550,000 in US Airways stock is also a positive sign and should ease concerns about the company's prospects.
US Airways said Parker will buy the stock when the company's trading policy allows insiders to trade in the company's stock. To comply with securities laws, public companies restrict insider stock sales during certain periods, such as the time leading up to earnings reports or major news announcements.
A frequent flier group, Frequent Fliers Organized and Concerned about Unacceptable Service, called the airline's new fees and the end of bonus miles for top frequent fliers "intolerable."
"As a result of the recent actions announced by the management team at US Airways, it is with great sadness and reluctance that we ask our membership and all who fly US Airways to please direct their business elsewhere," the group said.
And it urged those who fly the airline to report poor customer and flight issues to the U.S. Department of Transportation.
US Airways struggled mightily with its operations last year, ranking at or near the bottom of the industry in all key customer-service measures. It has started to turn things around, especially in on-time performance.
Reach the reporter at dawn .gilbertson@arizonarepublic .com or 602-444-8617.

 

[TechBoy]

Sorry your argument does not hold water. What you are referring to is a reaction to same ole same ole. I am not saying that JUST US has to make the price adjustments, ALL airlines do. Regarding who will fly and who won't, it's survival of the fittest. Those who can afford to fly will and those who can't won't.

The misconception is that you need to continue to offer the bargain basement fares. I say you don't--or at least not to the degree as being done today. What good is it to fill a flight with fares which ALL lose money?

...

AA, CO, UA, and DL have a better understanding of the revenue premium contributed by frequent business travelers. US is clueless--and arrogant enough to think they know everything. It's payback time---now when they need us the most they go out of their way to show we are not regarded, so we leave......

Art -- I'm not defending US per se. I'm a 1K on UA and reasonably happy with them considering the options. It's your ideas of "cost plus" pricing that I disagree with. It is not how business is done. It is not how any of the airlines (even WN) price their products. US' fare structure is exactly the same as AA, UA and the rest. They also charge high prices on monopoly nonstop routes, just like US. They also drop prices to match B6, WN and FL on routes where they compete.

At risk of agreeing with KC, it does feel as though it's mostly about the upgrades and miles for awards on *A flights. Because when it comes to service, WN is leap years ahead of US even without assigned seats. As for myself, I freely admit that the reasons that I fly UA is for the upgrade, E+ and European award travel. But if we "regulated" all fares to "fair" fares, then what would be the incentive for the airlines to give away these valuable perks?

 

[ABEFLYER]

As a former CP I have no horse in this race since I moved on in January. If you accept Tempe's premise that what they provide is a commodity and people look to the lowest price, they have failed to look at their competition. IF everyone is providing the same commodity AND bonus miles, except one merchant, why go to that merchant? You are getting less. Hitting their FF program in an economic downturn is just plain dumb and counter produtive.

 

[PHLfa88]

You never have read well.....the title says customers only. Besides, they are getting paid whether the are serving me or the next customer. Might even give them a much needed break while we count out our pennies.

If enough people do it, management will have to notice. Just let the new ticket counter agent ( you know the one they hired off the street last week and doesn't know how to turn on the computer) take 25 minutes to check in your bag while you count out the 1500 pennies and the line grow and grows and grows.......

I WILL NOT Take Your Pennies..Toll Booths Don't Take Them and I Will NOT Take Them! Your REALLY A Piece Of Work !! :down:

 

[PHLfa88]

Singleflyer,

You nailed it. Now that some of you have had a field day bashing Bob and me, let me explain myself fully.

First of all, I have been a Preferred flyer with US since 1999. A Chairman's Preferred flyer since 2000. I perservered flying out of ISP (with just about the best express crew of people of any station I might add), and the experience of ALWAYS going through PHL for years and years. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. When it didn't, I would receive a proactive call from my "angel" in Deborah Thompson's office who would make it right. (In those days they had some executive consumer relations agents who would keep track of high volume and yield travelers and make sure they were happy). To this day I still hear from that lady even though she is long gone from US.

In 2003, the year AFTER we started FFOCUS (then known as the US Cockroaches), I was invited by Ms. Thompson herself to join the Consumer Advisory Board, and attended my first meeting in Washington DC with the executive team at the time, which briefly included David Livingston Seagull himself. I spent a significant amount of time talking to Ben Baldanza, who as we all know, is the reason for our group beginning (the DM change reversal in 2002 was our first win). We had an enlightening discussion of fares. He told me if he could raise the lowest fares charged by $20 he could lower the top by $300. I told him to do it--he backed off said it wasn't that easy.

It is that easy. For Bear's benefit and that of those who think we mean that "rational" means "cheap", here it is. There is no place in today's environment for fares of $99-$199 on transcons, or even Florida for that matter. What Ben was saying is that people who pay the higher fares subsidize the loser fares--and that just isn't fair. The fares need to be FAIR. As Singleflyer said above, almost $700 for LGA-MHT on a buzz bucket is NOT fair. ISP-PHL on the same aircraft is over $800. Sorry ain't gonna happen. I would rather drive.

You have to take the cost of a product or service into consideration when you price it. The airline business today does not. So let's look at a typical route.

LGA-CLT is about 540 miles. It is usually run on mainline aircraft. Let's assume an average CASM of 16 cents which MIGHT reflect the cost of fuel today. The raw cost of transporting one person on that route is therefore now $86.40. So in theory, even if you offer a fare of $249 r/t you are making money. Not much but you're above the water line. Now you could afford to put 5-7 seats out there for less than that to remain competitive, but no more.

Since the bulk of your seats are going to be above break even if you do it right, you can then lower the high end of the fare structure--by rationalizing, we mean perhaps $500-$600 for a last minute round trip, as opposed to $900-$1000 which it has been and still may be. It's called the middle ground. I realize this is a simplified explanation, but it does work. It raises AVERAGE fares in any given market, which improves the overall revenue picture. The problem is no one has the guts to do it and stay with it.

So by rational we do NOT mean cheap. We mean FAIR. Maybe Crandall is right--a bit of regulation might be in order to save the industry--like a public service commission which regulates utility rates (still around!).

We can argue the point back and forth. We ALL realize that fares have to go up, but what US misses is that by going the extra step to alienate those who contribute the most to the bottom line, they are making things even WORSE for them, because the few elites left are bailing like crazy now. FACT. And I can tell you that based on a survey done by FFOCUS of its membership, we have very few "low value" elites who fly on the cheap (I never could understand mileage runs anyway). Most of our members pay their way, and our average yield is quite high. So why do they want us to leave? I guess it's just another brilliant decision by the sand castle....

I hope this helps folks...and I repeat. We all want US to survive and thrive, but at this point the management of the company is the biggest impediment to that......instead of trying to RETAIN the loyal customer base, the more you fly the less they want you around. Actions speak louder than words, folks....

Oh and since the CAB days, I have met regularly with both sets of US management--often on my own dime, and have presented them with our surveys, and I laid out a picture of how much we contribute and they laughed us off.....so I think we did give them every fair chance to make things right. THEY chose not to. It even got as far as them asking me to help them choose a new Consumer Advisory Board--and that one died on the vine because THEY know better. And I must say the absolute contempt for the frequent traveler is just amazing, and we now have no choice but to take them at their word--their actions say they want us to leave, so leave we shall.

To whomever said that it was now America Worst doing business at US Airways was right on the money....and as long as it stays this way, we encourage our members to stay away. Time to be held accountable. They push us away when they need us the most, so be it. With a management change, I am sure many would give US another chance, but this management team doesn't want us, so off we go. I do apologize to the front line employees--this was a very tough decision, but as usual, you have your management to thank for this situation.

Until management realizes that their FIRST priority is the employee, SECOND is the customer, and THIRD is the shareholder (take care of the first it takes care of the second, which automatically takes care of the third), and not the other way around, there is no hope.

My BEST to you all.......and Happy Fathers Day to those to whom it applies.

Your Posts Are Getting Really Tired!

 

[jimcfs]

View attachment 7634 Your Posts Are Getting Really Tired!

The KoolAid still tastes sweet, I see.

I wonder if you'll see things the same when you all lose your jobs. Sorry, the truth hurts, I know.

 

[PHLfa88]

The KoolAid still tastes sweet, I see.

I wonder if you'll see things the same when you all lose your jobs. Sorry, the truth hurts, I know.

Nice that You Two SEEM To KNOW SOOO Much..The Sky Is NOT Falling!

 

[N965VJ]

Just a general note to those who may find themselves filling out a job application in about a year; it’s considered bad form to capitalize the first letter of every word in a sentence.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Just a general note to those who may find themselves filling out a job application in about a year; it’s considered bad form to capitalize the first letter of every word in a sentence.

You Mean Writing: "I Love Kool-Aid" Is Bad Form? Thanks.

 

[longing4piedmont]

I WILL NOT Take Your Pennies..Toll Booths Don't Take Them and I Will NOT Take Them! Your REALLY A Piece Of Work !! :down:

Wanna bet?

 

[REACC1]

longing4piedmont,

C'mon, let us not get too spunky,
I realize your frustration, but don't let that get to you.
Thinik about it, who is doing it to you, it is not the person on the front line, that is also frustrated. If the intention is to clog the lines, so to speak, yes that would do it, LCC does it to them selves with their own inadequate computer res. system,etc..
Your position wouldn't be proactive to any one on the front line, it only penalizes them for nothing of their own doing. I do respect you and have met you once, however, I don't think your line of reasoning of the facilitation of pennies would do any good.

 

[Art at ISP]

We all realize that these decisions are not of those on the front line, but unfortunately most of the flying public will not realize that, and I am sorry to say, you guys and gals are in for a rough time from the uninformed.

That said, I find it interesting that certain employees here (especially one who can't say a nice thing to anyone), find it appropriate to attack the customers...for speaking what is essentially the truth.

I have a novel idea. What if the employees (and unions) AND customers banded together and tried to act TOGETHER to effect change???? Wouldn't that be something?

I find it embarrassing as a customer and a frequent flyer advocate that there is so much hatred between employees and customers on here...and between employee groups too but that's a whole other story.

Look, we wish you guys and gals the best, and we would love to work WITH you to effect positive change, but we should all direct our anger and frustration at the folks most responsible for it---those in the Sand Castle.

I am open to suggestion---you can PM or email me if you have any CONSTRUCTIVE ideas.

My BEST to you all....

 

[REACC1]

We all realize that these decisions are not of those on the front line, but unfortunately most of the flying public will not realize that, and I am sorry to say, you guys and gals are in for a rough time from the uninformed.

[sup]The company doesn't care about anyone but them selves. Employees have no pull, no matter, their tenure.[/sup]

That said, I find it interesting that certain employees here (especially one who can't say a nice thing to anyone), find it appropriate to attack the customers...for speaking what is essentially the truth.
[sup]Isn't the goal to sell, er, retain those frequent fliers,I agree to some point.[/sup]

I have a novel idea. What if the employees (and unions) AND customers banded together and tried to act TOGETHER to effect change???? Wouldn't that be something?

In that same breath, sometimes the Unions can be counter productive. (they don't nessarily(sp) do what they say they will. Or live up to expectations, seen it with my own eyes. Sometimes. It is not clear and it should be!.

I find it embarrassing as a customer and a frequent flyer advocate that there is so much hatred between employees and customers on here...and between employee groups too but that's a whole other story.
I realize that, I have always been on your side, it has always been take care of the customer, for decades, but unfortunatly, irregardless of the old folk on here, the new regimine has other plans due to fuel costs and ineptitude.

Look, we wish you guys and gals the best, and we would love to work WITH you to effect positive change, but we should all direct our anger and frustration at the folks most responsible for it---those in the Sand Castle.

I am so down with that, good luck to us all!

I am open to suggestion---you can PM or email me if you have any CONSTRUCTIVE ideas.

My BEST to you all....

My angle is to give you the best possible service, weather I am in the function I wanted to be in or not, I have accepted