Bye bye Tulsa

[AANOTOK]

OldGuy and Real tired...

 

[Kev3188]

Some here say we are elitist, I don't think that its the case, the industrial unions have kept my class and craft down since I started in this industry. MY opinion as well as many others.

No, the sh*tty "leadership" you all repeatedly elected and your collective complacency did that.
 

AANOTOK- If there are any second class citizens in the TWU it is the AMT group.  How else do you explain the inferior benefits?

See above.

See also D. Videtich, et al.

 

We all do different jobs and there is a much higher level of responsibility that goes along with the AMT job.

Yeah, thank God the FSC's aren't responsible for anything. Phew!



 

For years the AMTs at AA have been the lowest paid in the industry.  This has not been the case for either fleet or stores at AA.  We have watched our peers at all other airlines get pay raises while our pay was stunted.  In 2003 we were forced to give up an extra 2.5% as well as our sick time pay and longevity pay when fleet and stores kept these things.

Again, see above.


 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Kev3188....  I am sorry that you don't understand there is a difference between the responsibility of a Fleet Service Clerk and an AMT.  Also sorry you don't seem to understand that providing inferior benefits to AMTs is just plain wrong.  All I can say is that they are doing it to us and someday they may do it to you.  We are obviously not a real union if one work group is singled out and treated unfairly.  Am I supposed to be quiet while you and every other TWU member outside of the AMT group enjoy better benefits?  I was under the impression that in a union everyone was treated equally.  Not so in the TWU.  No, I didn't vote for it and I never got to vote against Don V, or Bobby Gless or Jim Little or any of the other international people who sold us out.  I didn't vote for Sam Cirri or John Hewett either, but evidently someone did.  But keep looking down your nose at me.  After all, you are getting the benefits that were taken from me.  You are acting like and elitist. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Real tired - You are right on the money. 

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I am an A&P that has signed off logbooks for many years.

Do you know that there are many people who also have jobs you might consider as menial yet they can cause mass death?

Just because an A&P certifies that an aircraft is safe does not make him above others.

I know Powerplant workers who if they make a mistake could cause another three mile island incident. How about Bus and train mechanics...

You may certify an aircraft landing system, but what about the guys who maintain the stuff on the ground that the aircraft all receive? They are not A&P's but they are highly skilled technicians.

What about the radar systems that ATC use? Ground radios? You do know that aircraft talk to people on the ground. How do you think that communication happens past the antenna on the aircraft?

A mis-loaded aircraft can quickly bring an aircraft down.

My point is that each and every employee is part of that chain. Any link can cause an accident. Do not discount what anyone does just because they are not signing off a logbook.

Do I think an A&P should be paid more than a Fleet Service worker?, Yes. Do I think a mechanic should say a ramp worker makes too much? Absolutely not.

None us makes what we are worth. If you need proof, just ask the guy next to you at work tomorrow, whoever they are or whatever "class and craft" to which they belong.

 

[Kev3188]

Also sorry you don't seem to understand that providing inferior benefits to AMTs is just plain wrong. 

Where'd I say that?

What's "just plain wrong" is you all allowing it to continue. Instead of crying about coattail riders and buying into the manufactured conflict between workgroups, you should've been pushing for better representation.

Am I supposed to be quiet

No. In fact 3 decades of being quiet is exactly why you guys are where you are today.

but evidently someone did.

Evidently lots of people did.

 

You are acting like and elitist. 

...And you are acting a like a 4 year old. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, get your sh*t together, and start working for a better tomorrow.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Glen, I get what you are saying.  But I never said fleet service made too much money.  I merely said that the TWU has kept at the industry standard of pay, while they have kept AMTs at the bottom.  This proves they have not represented AMTs.
 
Kev -  I am working for a better tomorrow.  I am pushing AMFA.  Acting like a 4 year old?  You are hilarious.  Thanks for the advise.  See ya in kindergarten.

 

[700UW]

Glenn great post!

 

[lpbrian]

How does an "A&p" from Tule fix a first class seat on a 777-300? Oh, I forgot, he is an A&P, he can do it all....

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

How does an "A&p" from Tule fix a first class seat on a 777-300? Oh, I forgot, he is an A&P, he can do it all....

Because we are mechanically inclined. You act like it's hard to fix lol.

 

[Kev3188]

Glen, I get what you are saying.  But I never said fleet service made too much money.  I merely said that the TWU has kept at the industry standard of pay, while they have kept AMTs at the bottom.  This proves they have not represented AMTs.

Then you all should've ditched them years ago. That's where your anger should be directed; not at people like AANOTOK.
 

Kev -  I am working for a better tomorrow.  I am pushing AMFA.

Great. Keep going.


 

Acting like a 4 year old?

Based on the foot stomping nature of your last few posts? Absolutely.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

How does an "A&p" from Tule fix a first class seat on a 777-300? Oh, I forgot, he is an A&P, he can do it all....

This post has to be a joke. A seat? Only a sky god like you could tackle that one < rolling my eyes >

You are "that guy" on the line like I had while I was lead. I would only send you out to calls on seats (or galley drains plugged, lavs inop, or an overhead bin stuck, etc.). Anything else went to the open minded trouble shooters with a wide range of abilities.

The best mechanics I had on my crew were guys who had worked the hangars (overhaul/heavy MX) for a number of years before coming to the line. I was one of those. I worked sheet metal, avionics, systems & rigging, and the composite shop before heading out to the line. The only problem with us is that we always wanted to fix everything (and could) rather than defer or MEL!

 

[MetalMover]

Kev3188....  I am sorry that you don't understand there is a difference between the responsibility of a Fleet Service Clerk and an AMT.  Also sorry you don't seem to understand that providing inferior benefits to AMTs is just plain wrong.  All I can say is that they are doing it to us and someday they may do it to you.  We are obviously not a real union if one work group is singled out and treated unfairly.  Am I supposed to be quiet while you and every other TWU member outside of the AMT group enjoy better benefits?  I was under the impression that in a union everyone was treated equally.  Not so in the TWU.  No, I didn't vote for it and I never got to vote against Don V, or Bobby Gless or Jim Little or any of the other international people who sold us out.  I didn't vote for Sam Cirri or John Hewett either, but evidently someone did.  But keep looking down your nose at me.  After all, you are getting the benefits that were taken from me.  You are acting like and elitist. 

What do you expect? For literally decades, way before mechanics separated and got their own locals, that is the attitude towards us we have had to endure because the mechanics were actually the minority when grouped with all other classifications. We had to attend union meetings ran by fleet service presidents, vp's, chair people, treasurers and recording secretaries preaching how he we all pay the same for a loaf of bread and why mechanics should not get a bigger piece of the pie. And how our license mean S**T to them.
All the time, more and more responsibility is place upon us along with the burden of crossing every t and dotting every i.
 
I don't belittle or begrudge any other work group as they each have an important role in an airline.
But the reality is some jobs have more of an impact when done poorly.

 

[Kev3188]

 

For literally decades, way before mechanics separated and got their own locals, that is the attitude towards us we have had to endure because the mechanics were actually the minority when grouped with all other classifications. We had to attend union meetings ran by fleet service presidents, vp's, chair people, treasurers and recording secretaries preaching how he we all pay the same for a loaf of bread and why mechanics should not get a bigger piece of the pie. And how our license mean S**T to them.
All the time, more and more responsibility is place upon us along with the burden of crossing every t and dotting every i.

That's my point. You guys suffered under sh*tty leadership for decades; yet somehow it never got "bad" enough to affect change.

And instead of looking inward (as a group), many have decided it's easier to buy into the whole "piece of the pie" sham instead of seeking the tougher- but more rewarding- solutions.

I'm all for you guys making the change(s) you need to in order to advance your profession. Honest. What I'm done doing is listening to people cry about how other groups have "stolen" from them, are riding their coat tails, or are somehow "lesser" than the AMT group, while still allowing the status quo to continue. When we buy into those ideas, Capital wins.

 

[1AA]

The last few posts are why we are so divided.
We need to respect ourselves and treat each other like professionals.
For this very reason is why we allowed the IBT to come and divert our interests again.
After all the mud slinging back and forth whether it be line against overhaul or one union over another the end result stays the same. We are still were we are after all is said and done. THE TWU!! Until we stop all this foolishness we can not rid ourselves of the TWU.
Are we professionals or not? Ask yourself and others the same question.