So you got 13 years experience? You may be right. I probably do have more time on the toilet at AA than you have experience. Good point there IPBrian. 13 years seniority in Tulsa wouldn't even get you day shift. No wonder you don't want any bumping.
Bye bye Tulsa
- Thread starter brownmech
- Start date
Kev3188
Veteran
You should change your diet.
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
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Wow. A whole 13 years.lpbrian said:
No wonder you fear the bump.
Will that get you JFK, or BOS if Tulsa RIF's?
Unfortunately for the guys in Tule he is probably pretty safe wherever he is with 13 years. That puts him at around 6700 out of 7854 T-1. Tule only has around 2800 AMTs, figure at least half, if not more, would retire if they shut the base completely, which isn't likely anytime soon.
One of the concessions we gave years ago in exchange for $12500 is if we had to bump that the company would create a "Juniority List" to minimize bumping and make it easier and cheaper for the company to lay people off, well the $12500 is gone but the Seniority busting Juniority list is still here. That means if the Junior people in the system are all in NY, ORD and LAX, even if the TULE guys had guys beat in every station in the system their choice is go to NY, ORD, LAX or the street.
One of the concessions we gave years ago in exchange for $12500 is if we had to bump that the company would create a "Juniority List" to minimize bumping and make it easier and cheaper for the company to lay people off, well the $12500 is gone but the Seniority busting Juniority list is still here. That means if the Junior people in the system are all in NY, ORD and LAX, even if the TULE guys had guys beat in every station in the system their choice is go to NY, ORD, LAX or the street.
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
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So if you are laid off, you have to bump the junior person on the system in your classification?
You cannot bump the junior person in your classification at the station of your choice?
That is enough right there to toss a union out.
You cannot bump the junior person in your classification at the station of your choice?
That is enough right there to toss a union out.
Kev3188
Veteran
+1
When I started at NW, I thought our bumping language was (more or less) the norm. It wasn't until a couple of years later that I learned that "juniority" like this existed at AA, US, etc.
It's awful, and I can't imagine why any NC would agree to it.
When I started at NW, I thought our bumping language was (more or less) the norm. It wasn't until a couple of years later that I learned that "juniority" like this existed at AA, US, etc.
It's awful, and I can't imagine why any NC would agree to it.
In 1983? the company said in addition to moving expenses which was consistent with the rest of the industry "protected" employees get a 'one time" $12500 if they have to relocate provided the Juniority list was in place, the sell outs sold it as a gain when in fact it was a huge concession because with the Juniority list there is minimal ripple effect, it violates seniority and in fact makes it less costly to RIF people.
So a 30 Year A&P from Tulsa could end up in NY when there are three year mechanics working in DFW.
Under a normal seniority based system if a 30 year guy got RIF'd in TULE he could bump DFW, or any station where there were Junior guys to him, and that guy may bump SAT, who may bump MIA who may bump ORD, who may bump BOS who may bump JFK, so each bump would cost the company up to $12000 in Moving expenses, plus training, lost time etc, so instead of the Rif costing $84,000 plus, (where it may be more cost effective to just keep the guy) we agreed to a deal where it would only cost them $24,500 to violate seniority and save $60,000, now it costs them nothing to violate Seniority and they save $70,000, because we lost the $12500 but still have the seniority busting Juniority List. We could not have made it any easier for them to lay people off. This sad pattern of negotiating away something of greater value that everybody has in exchange for something of lesser value (that's sold under an inflated value) that's then lost, leaving us without either has been going on for decades here. Flex Benefits, Prefunding, Station Protection, less vacation, less sick time etc, etc etc.
So a 30 Year A&P from Tulsa could end up in NY when there are three year mechanics working in DFW.
Under a normal seniority based system if a 30 year guy got RIF'd in TULE he could bump DFW, or any station where there were Junior guys to him, and that guy may bump SAT, who may bump MIA who may bump ORD, who may bump BOS who may bump JFK, so each bump would cost the company up to $12000 in Moving expenses, plus training, lost time etc, so instead of the Rif costing $84,000 plus, (where it may be more cost effective to just keep the guy) we agreed to a deal where it would only cost them $24,500 to violate seniority and save $60,000, now it costs them nothing to violate Seniority and they save $70,000, because we lost the $12500 but still have the seniority busting Juniority List. We could not have made it any easier for them to lay people off. This sad pattern of negotiating away something of greater value that everybody has in exchange for something of lesser value (that's sold under an inflated value) that's then lost, leaving us without either has been going on for decades here. Flex Benefits, Prefunding, Station Protection, less vacation, less sick time etc, etc etc.
Real tired
Veteran
Wow !Glenn Quagmire said:
Until I read this thread, I had heard of the Juniority system, but didn't know it existed at AA.
Now that the taste of the company cake in my mouth has worn off, I'm finding less and less I like about this "merger".
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Real tired said:
Real Tired
If you think the bumping process of the TWU is FOUL you should just ask some of the others here how the TWU & AA have allowed bumping at only certain stations while blocking others and also that the last layoffs here at AA were done all different.
The TWU works to lessen the burden on the company not the union member.
This Assoc. should NOT be allowed and both you guys at US and Us here at AA should do everything within our power to insure that it fails.
The IAM has failed there or you guys would not of had a vote to remove them.
The loss of your IAM pension I bet was a factor, not allowing the IBT to get their hands on it.
The TWU here at AA has been a failure since 1946.
The TWU needs to be removed, and the sooner the better, I was IAM once and of the three industrial unions the IAM is maybe the best. But as a mechanic in the industry I feel that AMFA is the way we need to take our class and craft. Some may disagree, that is OK but until we are separate from the ramp and stores we will be always looked at as just ground workers. The New TWU is shedding its old officers and putting in others in hopes of keeping the dues flowing. Just what is Tom B doing for you guys at US? Just how much have you lost in the last 10yrs? LQQK at that and ask yourself am I willing to give the Assoc. a chance to screw it up even more? ASK the members at your station and others you know.
Some here say we are elitist, I don't think that its the case, the industrial unions have kept my class and craft down since I started in this industry. MY opinion as well as many others.
If we the mechanics from both US & AA work together to rid the NEW AA of this alliance we will in the long run save our class&craft. Be able to remove union leaders which do not look out for our best interests, any union member can attend negotiations, no longer attached to other work groups outside of our class and craft. (not M&R) at either US or AA.
SIGN AN AMFA CARD SO WE CAN PUT AN END TO THE TWU/IAM ALLIANCE
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
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Just as there are those who feel "some" of you are "elitist", there is no doubt there are a few of you who look at "ground workers" (fleet service) as second class citizens. It is what it is and we will all live! 
I wish luck in getting everything you guys/gals want.
I wish luck in getting everything you guys/gals want.AANOTOK- If there are any second class citizens in the TWU it is the AMT group. How else do you explain the inferior benefits? We all do different jobs and there is a much higher level of responsibility that goes along with the AMT job. This should reflect in higher pay and at least the same benefits as other groups inside our own union. For years the AMTs at AA have been the lowest paid in the industry. This has not been the case for either fleet or stores at AA. We have watched our peers at all other airlines get pay raises while our pay was stunted. In 2003 we were forced to give up an extra 2.5% as well as our sick time pay and longevity pay when fleet and stores kept these things. If the TWU had done this to fleet I am sure you would not have liked it. I suggested to the TWU that no raises should go to any group until these things are restored to AMTs and you can imagine the response I got. I (as well as others) feel our needs have been ignored by the TWU and that we are not represented. If we are valued members of the TWU why was our longevity and 100% sick time not restored in 2012 as well as the extra 2.5% pay that was stolen from us? Why were we forced to give up much more than any other group? I have no problem with fleet or stores and am glad the TWU gets them the pay that other airlines pay their fleet and stores. The TWU has never gotten the AMTs the pay that the other airlines pay their AMTs. This is not a knock on you or anyone else who is in another job title. We hold the TWU international responsible and not the rank and file. I don't think that I am better than anyone, but I do feel I deserve the same benefits that you have. The next time you have to call in sick please remember that I lose half a day's pay when I do. When you look at your check try to imagine it with 2.5% less gross pay as well as no longevity pay. Maybe then you can imagine how we feel.
Real tired
Veteran
With snot frozen to your nose, a broken back, busted knees and hard of hearing, I don't look at one Fleet person as second class.
But we deserve to choose our own representation, just as the pilots and flight attendants do. And just as you do. That makes none of us "elitist".
But we deserve to choose our own representation, just as the pilots and flight attendants do. And just as you do. That makes none of us "elitist".
