Bod Unrest

[700UW]

Once again you post things you have no idea about.

When an employee gets fired there are no fees to the company, they maintain a labor relations department who makes the determination after getting the facts from local management, no added cost as these people are all ready on staff.

And our union does not have bosses, all IAM leaders are elected by the membership, not chosen by a BOD.

And Randy Canale from IAM District Lodge 141 does not raise the dues, when there is an increase in wages dues go up, when there is an decrease dues go down.

In Fact my local IAM lodge dues went down because of the concessions, as I have previously posted and you once again you decide to ignore it, there are only five ways for dues to be calculated under the IAM constitution and they are calculated every August (Once again you have Munn Syndrome and care to ignore the facts and truth and fail to answer anything that is poised to you when you are wrong.)

And Bob, every penny an union spends is accountable and public knowledge by law, the Landrum-Grittith Act, unlike US Airways which does not have to disclose where every single penny is spent.

And Bob, Mr Randy Canale's salary for the year 2002 was $106,197 and business expense were $24,572 for a total of $130,769. And Mr Canale particiapted in the the United Airlines Concession during the ESOP took the same paycut and revieced the stock which is now worthless and Mr Canale took the same % paycuts and benefit cuts as his UAL Represented employees did both during the ESOP and the latest round of concessions. (http://union-reports.dol.gov/olmsWeb/docs/pdf/LM2_020774_20021231_0.pdf) Page 9 will show you Mr Canale's compensation. And lets see Dave made almost $4 million for 27,000 employees and Mr Canale who is President and Directing General Chairman for IAM District Lodge 141 oversees 31,300 members, seems the IAM members are getting the best bang for the buck versus Dave and US Airways.

Unlike Dave who made up for hsi 20% with a signing bonus and earned almost $4 million dollars last year.

And the IAM International President Tom Buffenbarger made $193,390 in salary overseeing 673,050 Members VS Dave's salary of $4 million for 27,000 employees, seems once again the IAM Members get more for their money.

Like I said and Pitguy, the company has the right to operate their business and they can fire someone anytime as long as they are correct in why they fired someone, their is no sick time abuse rampant in this company because they watch every employee's sick usage and you get called into your supervisor's office and get counseled for everytime we are sick or late, don't believe what someone sheltered in an office who does not work in the field posts on a board.


So Bob, I suggest you educate yourself before you post inaccurate information and learn the truth, then maybe you will have a better understanding of what is really going on and learn to reply back to people when they post the facts or you can just choose to have Munn Syndrome.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

I'm not sure if we are "talking past" each other. I think we may have different perspectives. If you choose to call that agendas, so be it.

I've spent nearly 25 years with this airline (if you count the predecessor company), plus another 7 at a small cargo "airline" building time to get here. I've seen the good, the bad, and the indifferent. I've worked under good, bad, and so-so management. All from the inside.

You, by your own statement, are a customer. Your perspective is from the outside, looking in. Sorta like driving down the street, seeing a house, analyzing how structurely sound it is, and if determined unsound, determining what needs to be fixed - all from your car as you drive by.

Others have said it but it's worth repeating. If you haven't walked a mile in our shoes, you don't really know what it's like.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Like I said once again you post things that you have no idea about.

US Airways maintains a labor relations department for contract administration and negotiations, that is a fact, they have to have them here, the termination process is not long, expensive or cumbersome.

CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND, DUES ARE BASED ON WAGES, my DUES WENT DOWN BECAUSE MY WAGES WENT DOWN. Are you an IAM member paying dues? I dont think so, so once again you post things that you are on the outside looking in on.

635,000 MEMBERS for a salary of $193,000 Tom Buffengbarger
Plus the majority of IAM members are in Aerospace not airlines and every union in this business is losing members at a higher then norman rate, so instead of trying to sling mud, why can't you respond to the facts given to you?

27,000 Employees for $4 MILLION Dave Siegel.

Black and white Bob, you cant dispute that.

Do I need to post how dues are figured?

There is only FIVE ways, if your salary goes down your dues at the next calculation goes down.

Bob, go to the Dr you have been diagnosed with MUNN Syndrome as you can't respond to things when you have been proven wrong.

And I am done, maybe you will take the time and educate yourself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Whoa Bob, maybe time to switch to decaf...

Do you honestly believe that any company of U's size could not have a "labor relations" or whatever name in this time of government regulations from alphabet soup agencies?

Maybe if management would stop violating the contracts, those grievences would stop and the extra cost of them would be no more.

Unions are by definition neither good or bad. Contrary to popular belief, unions are not responsible for ensuring the success of any company - that is management's job. Also contrary to popular belief, unions are not out to suck the lifeblood out of a company - to do so would mean no members. Any contract is signed by both sides. Certainly times change. If you'll study the history of the airlines, I believe you'll find that the employees (unionized and nonunionized) have accepted those changes.

If you choose to blame the unions for "killing" a company, do you also credit the union with a company's success. Southwest is as highly unionized as any "legacy" carrier and successful. Eastern, TWA, PanAM, Braniff, etc were likewise heavily unionized and failed. And did it before the large growth of the LCC's.

Jim

 

[700UW]

So Bob, you can't counter the facts so once again you resort to attacks and name calling, guess you do have Munn Syndrome.

And yes Bob the company has always had a labor relations department when the fleet and customer service agents were non union they still had to deal with labor relations so they would be there anyhow.

There is not fat and featherbedding in my contract, the Maintenance Department is so short handed we have airplanes parked in PIT and CLT because we don't have the manpower to work them.

If you think my contract has featherbedding in it then prove it!

Featherbedding is a $750,000 bonus for walking in the door, $16,000 moving expenses, stay 5 years and get 30 years pension credit and free travel the rest of your life for your family and yourself, paying for a CEO to live in the CCY Marriott and then pay for his limo and pay extra money to cover the taxes on that.

Hmm, does any of us employees have that in our contracts?

NO!, But Steven Wolf and Dave Siegel DO!

Bob, I guess you are a proponent of the feudal, indentured servant and slavery too!

Why don't you go ask your girlfriend is she wants her kids working in the mines at 11 years old?

Unions are necessary, think of the Hamlet, NC chicken plant where the owners locked the doors and the workers died when the place caught on fire, think of the Triangle Shirt Factory, workers thruout history have been used and abused by big business, that is why unions were born, they were formed so workers would get treated with dignity and respect, and not as a slave.

And I don't care if your family stormed the beaches in Normandy, my family fought in wars too, it is of no consequence of what is going on at US Airways. These workers are trying to make ends meet and have to choose between food and medicine since some of them had their pay reduced by ten dollars an hour.

Yes Bob those are facts, so why don't you go on the road and order your room service and live high on the hog when us common working folks just try to make a living.

And the IAM has representation at UA, NWA, US, WN, HA, AS, and numerous others, they all might not be mechanics, but that is a mute point.

Why don't you come to work for US Airways if you think it is so great, how many times did you have to move? How many days are you away from home and can't see your family because your employed closed where you worked? You are in sales and you know you have to travel, ask the workers in CLE and any other station who had their pay cut from $20 an hour to $13 because their station was expressed, then two months later have mainline jets back in their stations but yet still get paid $13 an hour.

YOU ARE AN OUTSIDER and have NO IDEA of what it is to work here under the threats and intimidation.

And I thought a grown man could take constructive criticism and admit when they are wrong, but I guess not.

Sorry Bob the hard working employees at US Airways will not let us be exploited by the likes of the Two Daves and Jerry.

Better get that insurance for you DMs, oh and by the way, do you turn your DM miles back to your company or do you keep them and use them without even paying for the travel?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

"All I have to do is look at the employee/plane ratio which tells a big part of the story. Then I look at the CASM, something's wrong someplace. BTW I don't get paid to read your contract or examine the fine points it's not my job!"

Employee/plane ratio means next to nothing when comparing U to the LCC's. A valid comparison would be U to AMR, CAL, NWA, DAL, etc. Hub/spoke mixed fleet flying means more people than point to point single fleet type.

Yes, CASM means something's wrong - but it doesn't mean that the problem is the employees.

If you don't know the fine points of the contracts, maybe you shouldn't critize them.

"You get what you negotiate in life"

Exactly, just as Dave and you did. Who wants to change the negotiated agreements or violate them? Not the employees.

"Frontier is hiring at between $8.00 & $9.00 per hour for job that U pays 13.50/hr for"

Are you saying that a new hire and a 15 (or 20 or 25) year veteran should make the same? That nobody should be paid more than whoever is willing to do the job for the least. What happened to the "negotiated" pay.

"Is labor totally at fault? Well if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem."

Labor has stepped up and been part of the solution for the last decade.

"Putting your faith in a company is a fools game that i won't play!"

Unfortunately, many airline employees can't pick up and go elsewhere where they'll be paid more than people that were there longer like you can. That's the big drawback to the seniority system. Course, not having to watch the boss promote his favorite pet over you or keep them on while furloughing you is an advantage.

You're right in that I don't know you. Likewise, you know few if any of us as individuals.

Jim

 

[pitguy]

Piney,
Try to remember Nature of the Beast is when you do not have a future you tend not to care. See let 'em whip away. They can only beat the employee's into a coma and now that the employee's are in the coma the employee's do not freaking care. Might as well get used to it. The employee's are.

 

[robbedagain]

Does anyone know if any of the other three unions--AFA, CWA, and IAM also agree
that this mgmt team by seigel should go as ALPA has stated? I would have to agree with ALPA even know I am a ramp agent at a station that went to the express pay and mainline express city. Also, does anyone know if only dr. bronner is the only idiot that has "complete confidence" in the current regime or the entire bod?

 

[USA320Pilot]

PineyBob:

PineyBob said: "Is it a majority of employees? Or a majority of posters on US Aviation that have no confidence in management?"

Chip comments: PineyBob, many employees are upset at the industry restructuring, but the silent majority understands what's occurring. Most of the people who post on this message board do not represent the opinions of the majority of employees.

The risk here is David Bronner is an investor who controls over 51 percent BOD voting power. At some point Bronner may say this union - management fighting has gone far enough and then he could break up the airline into pieces and sell it. The pieces are greater than the whole and then he could recover high investment with a capital gain.

In fact, the Bush Administration would likely support such action because the loan guarantee could be re-paid and about 6% of the industry's capacity would be eliminated. This would help the other network carriers survive and preserve their employee positions.

Regards,

Chip

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mrplanes:

Mrplanes said: "You are probably correct Chip, he can make us dissappear if he wants. But his credibility as an airline board Chairman wouldn't be all that hot now would it?"

Chip asks: Do you think Bronner really cares? He's an investor who could just as easily be a corporate raider. It's all about money and I believe he would rather 'credibility as an airline board Chairman" than lose money at his primary job. If I was him, I would break up the airline and make sure I protected RSA first. Why waste his time and energy at US Airways?

Regards,

Chip

 

[Bear96]

I believe Chip's last two posts are right on (surprise!). This is how I too read Bronner's recent comments as reported in the media.

 

[funguy2]

Mrplanes:

Mrplanes said: "You are probably correct Chip, he can make us dissappear if he wants. But his credibility as an airline board Chairman wouldn't be all that hot now would it?"

Chip asks: Do you think Bronner really cares? He's an investor who could just as easily be a corporate raider. It's all about money and I believe he would rather 'credibility as an airline board Chairman" than lose money at his primary job. If I was him, I would break up the airline and make sure I protected RSA first. Why waste his time and energy at US Airways?

Regards,

Chip

I agree Bear... In fact, I can say that I agree with Chip's statement.

The scenario Chip describes is (alomost) completely at the control of Bronner and BOD and therefore is FAR more likely than any UCT, which involves UAL agreeing to divest assets, financing from somewhere, DOJ approval, etc, etc.

 

[N628AU]

The risk here is David Bronner is an investor who controls over 51 percent BOD voting power. At some point Bronner may say this union - management fighting has gone far enough and then he could break up the airline into pieces and sell it. The pieces are greater than the whole and then he could recover high investment with a capital gain.

What pieces are worth anything? We don't own any aircraft, they are all leveraged/leased. The LGA and DCA would be worth nothing on the open market, almost certainly the DOT would repo them and open them to the market, with no financial payment to RSA (did they not rule the Midway slots could not be repoed by Airways as DIP collateral). PIT? Plenty of space to operate from now if someone wanted it. CLT? I believe we lease everything (including gates and hangars) from the city. International route authorities? We are not flying into LHR or NRT here, just about anyone coudl get route atuhority for any of our cities in Europe. The shuttle? Always been a crown jewel, but Acela kills yields, and without the corresponding slots, you cannot oeprate it (see above).

I ask again, what is worth anything, especially for a "capital gain"?

 

[ClueByFour]

I believe that things like LGA and DCA and BOS gates/slots are owed to the ATSB to back the loan. Bronner can't sell those, or he can, but he's got to pay the loan first.

Which leaves him with what? A few hundred used aircraft, most of which are leased, and those that are owned will certainly not repay his initial investment. If he breaks things up, it will be with enough cash left to pay him and the ATSB before selling anything.

In other words, north of 1 Billion.

 

[N628AU]

Bob,

Reread my above post. I have yet to have anyone show me how shutting this place down or auctioning parts off to the highest bidders will give Bronner any, let alone maximize the return on the RSA investment. Jobs for Alabama? He tried to get Dave to end around the IAM contract, and was promptly smakced down by the judge. If he wants jobs, just open a company maintenance facility there, and there is little recourse except for the employees that want to stay to move.