Agreed Mark. The entire travel process would be looked at. This idea makes a lot of sense, but would someone take the steps necessary to implement it? With Dave's letter talking about fighting with a better product, this airline needs to ensure that the customers perceive it as a better product.
Beverage Service On Short Flights?
- Thread starter AtlanticBeach
- Start date
Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
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Well, less than 190 on US is a "no serve" 191 would be an express service (coke, dc, sprite, water)...that is only a 1 mile difference.KCFlyer said:
Flights less than 261 miles is just a full bev/pretzel service and 262 would be a bev/meal(buy-on-board) service... that again is only a difference of 1 mile.
My point is that you need to draw a line in the sand somewhere.
Think of it like this....weight for the plane.. only allotement for 50 people you want 51..what's one more? Are you going to "squeeze" that person on it?
Car you want to buy is $15,000.00 sticker price..they ask you for $15,001.00..after all it's only $1.00. Are you going to pay it?
I know the examples seem extreme, but I am trying to draw the point home.
As for Southwest, their service "guidelines" are obviously different.
If all companies and business ran the same there would be no need to compete for anything..including salaries. Everyone across the board would get paid the same whether is be US, AA, UAL, JB, etc...
Shorter Beverages on Service Flights...
I've noticed that both Coke and Pepsi have started to offer 6pk of 8oz cans instead of 12oz. How about switching to the smaller cans (they look the same size only shorter so they should fit onboard ok) and give the whole can? Maybe Coke or Pepsi would be willing to cut some kind of deal to get people used to the new size. I know BA serves (or used to) the smaller cans and gave the whole can. Giving the whole can like we used to makes the service look better than just getting a cup, even if they are actually the same amount. Wonder what the cost difference would be or the savings from not having leftover open cans that werent used?
I've noticed that both Coke and Pepsi have started to offer 6pk of 8oz cans instead of 12oz. How about switching to the smaller cans (they look the same size only shorter so they should fit onboard ok) and give the whole can? Maybe Coke or Pepsi would be willing to cut some kind of deal to get people used to the new size. I know BA serves (or used to) the smaller cans and gave the whole can. Giving the whole can like we used to makes the service look better than just getting a cup, even if they are actually the same amount. Wonder what the cost difference would be or the savings from not having leftover open cans that werent used?
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,294
- 1,427
Yes, and unfortunately for U, customers on this "low cost" carrier get better service than on their "full service" competition. Perhaps the "guideline" books should be thrown out and maybe you should look at the competition for something that can be perceived as a higher level of service. Southwest doesn't use the drink cart...Southwest takes drink orders while you're on the ground.... and Southwest brings the drinks as soon as practical after departure. You're right...there's no way you'd serve a cabin, even in a 50 seat RJ, by waiting until you past 10,000 feet, the dragging out the drink cart and then asking what passengers want. Simply ask them prior to takeoff...prepare the drinks and immediately start serving them as soon as you can after takeoff.Twicebaked said:
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
I've wondered that too tadjr. As a child I used to fly on alot of European carriers and thats what they would use- tiny little cans. I used to collect them. They were smaller than the ones Coke and Pepsi are making now, they were just enough to fill the cup. If any FAs remember the small Bloody Mary mixes we used to get sometimes, they were that size. It would save time just giving a can and a cup and cut down on waste when we have to throw out half empty cans of soda and juice. Plus it would enable flights to be catered with more supplies for the same weight (double provisioning) and the carts would have more supplies in them while in the aisle. The thing is, I dont think the soda companies make them in smaller sizes (except Coke's new promotional ones) in the US.
These are the type of "think outside the box" cost saving measures and operational ideas that no one in the Crystal Palce would ever think of. Another thing- does US even use the ovens on the Airbus narrowbodies at all anymore? This space could be used for additional storage if not. Sorry for wandering off the topic...
These are the type of "think outside the box" cost saving measures and operational ideas that no one in the Crystal Palce would ever think of. Another thing- does US even use the ovens on the Airbus narrowbodies at all anymore? This space could be used for additional storage if not. Sorry for wandering off the topic...
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
MMW and N6,
Ghost riding is not a "novel idea". WE have had ghost riders since the beginning of In-flight service. MMW, you of all people should know this. Our f/as have been commended as well as "written up" for their customer care or lack of.
With regard to serving beverages on "short segments", management has the ability to provide all kinds of service. We at one time had packaged juice, lemonaide to hand out to customers. Another nice idea for extremely short segments is handing out the miniture bottled water to the passsengers, including the RJ service. Folks can take the water with them as well.
Ghost riding is not a "novel idea". WE have had ghost riders since the beginning of In-flight service. MMW, you of all people should know this. Our f/as have been commended as well as "written up" for their customer care or lack of.
With regard to serving beverages on "short segments", management has the ability to provide all kinds of service. We at one time had packaged juice, lemonaide to hand out to customers. Another nice idea for extremely short segments is handing out the miniture bottled water to the passsengers, including the RJ service. Folks can take the water with them as well.
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
Back to the topic.
*Ed and his wife fly from CAK to PIT on Express. On the way there are only 7 passengers. The FA serves the beverage of thier choice, plus pretzels and still has time left over. On the way back there are 30 people and the FA does the service outlined for the route- an Express service (Coke, Sprite, Diet Coke, Water). Ed is angry. "I had a choice on the way. This stewardess is mean. I hate USAir. They're so inconsistant." Ed demands a Diet Sprite anyway, because hes special. If everyone did this, only a few people would get served.
The theory behind the quidelines is same service every flight- and everyone gets at least something. If any major airline knows a thing or two about short flights, its US Airways and its predecessors. Most airlines wouldnt dare ask thier FAs to get out of the jumpseat for some of the flights U serves on and has in the past (every junior FA has heard about the hot breakfast PIT to PHL from the senior mamas- its like the way your parents talk about thier barefoot walk to school uphill both ways).
*Times can vary on flights so service may seem odd. A flight may be blocked for 20 minutes but turns into 55 with ATC etc- now the crew seems lazy and mean because they did an Express service. The opposite is also true- tailwinds etc can cut short the time a flight is blocked for. Keep in mind crewmembers are required to be strapped in, in brace position for takeoff and landing and both the company and employee could be fined if FAs are performng non-safety related duities during this time. The same goes for taxiing- FAs are only supposed to be up for safety demo and cabin checks, and are not supposed to be preparing for service, getting pillows etc. Clearing predeparture drinks in First is considered safety related.
*Despite quidelines, aircraft type can be a factor. Pre-US, I used to work for a commuter airline that flew a very short route in the midwest. We only flew it once a week for maintenance, the rest of the time another affiliate flew it. They served, we didnt. They had a turboprop with two FAs. We had me, an RJ, and literally seventeen minutes runway to runway. The passengers would glare at me the whole time.
*At that same first flying job, I was an overenthusiastic 18 year old thrilled to be a flight attendant. I would convince catering to give me extra supplies and amenities from the mainline jets. On hour and a half RJ flights, I was doing a beverage with snack mix, followed by coffee, tea, or milk and a cookie, doing hot towels and even offering timetables (I know, what a dork- I was 18!!!) When the complimentary letters started flowing in and it was discovered what I was up to I got in trouble. The effort was appreciated but please just serve a drink for consistency sake- thus my luxury RJ service ended.
I share this story because in this current atmosphere, US FAs are risking thier jobs by going the extra mile- I saw a movie on the way to DEN recently and I'm not supposed to. A crew that was trying to be nice could get in trouble if a customer calls or writes asking why there wasnt one on the way back. This applies to service as well. This management is just looking for reasons to discipline and ultimatly reduce headcount.
*Someone said that the service codes are not on the trip sheets anymore- they need to be. Its US Airways responsibility to make thier service desires (or lack thereof) known, and to let thier plethora of affiliates know as well and ask them to enforce it (good luck).
*For those complaining about knitting and reading, what are the suggestions for what a FA should be doing on down time? Every job has down time. Some think they should be cleaning ("Can you get up? I need to look under your seat cushion for change.") Perhaps they should change into an evening gown and sing showtunes to keep the folks entertained? The pilots, who also arent busy at times could come back for a rousing rendition of "I've Got You Babe." Maybe they could offer to balace passengers checkbooks? Iron your shirt in the back galley? Badger people with offers of a second cup of Coke and those awful pretzels? Nope, being inconsisant again, Ed will expect that the next time.
*Ed and his wife fly from CAK to PIT on Express. On the way there are only 7 passengers. The FA serves the beverage of thier choice, plus pretzels and still has time left over. On the way back there are 30 people and the FA does the service outlined for the route- an Express service (Coke, Sprite, Diet Coke, Water). Ed is angry. "I had a choice on the way. This stewardess is mean. I hate USAir. They're so inconsistant." Ed demands a Diet Sprite anyway, because hes special. If everyone did this, only a few people would get served.
The theory behind the quidelines is same service every flight- and everyone gets at least something. If any major airline knows a thing or two about short flights, its US Airways and its predecessors. Most airlines wouldnt dare ask thier FAs to get out of the jumpseat for some of the flights U serves on and has in the past (every junior FA has heard about the hot breakfast PIT to PHL from the senior mamas- its like the way your parents talk about thier barefoot walk to school uphill both ways).
*Times can vary on flights so service may seem odd. A flight may be blocked for 20 minutes but turns into 55 with ATC etc- now the crew seems lazy and mean because they did an Express service. The opposite is also true- tailwinds etc can cut short the time a flight is blocked for. Keep in mind crewmembers are required to be strapped in, in brace position for takeoff and landing and both the company and employee could be fined if FAs are performng non-safety related duities during this time. The same goes for taxiing- FAs are only supposed to be up for safety demo and cabin checks, and are not supposed to be preparing for service, getting pillows etc. Clearing predeparture drinks in First is considered safety related.
*Despite quidelines, aircraft type can be a factor. Pre-US, I used to work for a commuter airline that flew a very short route in the midwest. We only flew it once a week for maintenance, the rest of the time another affiliate flew it. They served, we didnt. They had a turboprop with two FAs. We had me, an RJ, and literally seventeen minutes runway to runway. The passengers would glare at me the whole time.
*At that same first flying job, I was an overenthusiastic 18 year old thrilled to be a flight attendant. I would convince catering to give me extra supplies and amenities from the mainline jets. On hour and a half RJ flights, I was doing a beverage with snack mix, followed by coffee, tea, or milk and a cookie, doing hot towels and even offering timetables (I know, what a dork- I was 18!!!) When the complimentary letters started flowing in and it was discovered what I was up to I got in trouble. The effort was appreciated but please just serve a drink for consistency sake- thus my luxury RJ service ended.
I share this story because in this current atmosphere, US FAs are risking thier jobs by going the extra mile- I saw a movie on the way to DEN recently and I'm not supposed to. A crew that was trying to be nice could get in trouble if a customer calls or writes asking why there wasnt one on the way back. This applies to service as well. This management is just looking for reasons to discipline and ultimatly reduce headcount.
*Someone said that the service codes are not on the trip sheets anymore- they need to be. Its US Airways responsibility to make thier service desires (or lack thereof) known, and to let thier plethora of affiliates know as well and ask them to enforce it (good luck).
*For those complaining about knitting and reading, what are the suggestions for what a FA should be doing on down time? Every job has down time. Some think they should be cleaning ("Can you get up? I need to look under your seat cushion for change.") Perhaps they should change into an evening gown and sing showtunes to keep the folks entertained? The pilots, who also arent busy at times could come back for a rousing rendition of "I've Got You Babe." Maybe they could offer to balace passengers checkbooks? Iron your shirt in the back galley? Badger people with offers of a second cup of Coke and those awful pretzels? Nope, being inconsisant again, Ed will expect that the next time.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Light years,
True.
Folks say that U use to serve hot meals on short segments years ago. Let me tell you, with those PIT-PHL hot breakfast and the ORD-PIT dinner flights, we use to throw the trays in the bathroom just to dive in to our seats to land. Then once landed, we had to clean up the mess in the bathrooms from the food and trays being thrown in there. Cleaners would be pissed as well cause they had to turn the plane around in 15 minutes once it was deplaned, cause it had to be ready to receive the next group of passengers 30 min. before sched. departure. These meal services use to be back to back....PIT-ORD, then ORD-PIT, beverages, alcohol service, the entire enchalata.
We did it cause we had to. This lasted for years until someone wised up in CCY that folks weren't even able to finish the meal.
True.
Folks say that U use to serve hot meals on short segments years ago. Let me tell you, with those PIT-PHL hot breakfast and the ORD-PIT dinner flights, we use to throw the trays in the bathroom just to dive in to our seats to land. Then once landed, we had to clean up the mess in the bathrooms from the food and trays being thrown in there. Cleaners would be pissed as well cause they had to turn the plane around in 15 minutes once it was deplaned, cause it had to be ready to receive the next group of passengers 30 min. before sched. departure. These meal services use to be back to back....PIT-ORD, then ORD-PIT, beverages, alcohol service, the entire enchalata.
We did it cause we had to. This lasted for years until someone wised up in CCY that folks weren't even able to finish the meal.
Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
- 18
I am quite sure they didn't demand for you to "pick it up".N628AU said:
I am sorry you felt you got an attitude, but that being said...
Flight attendants come around to COLLECT your trash NOT pick it up for you. Have you any idea of the germs and diseases that some people have?
We will gladly extend the trash bag to you and you put in your own trash.
If it was you "neighbors" you shouldn't have touched it either.
Mom doesnt' work here.
Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
- 18
You know that is a GREAT idea! While we are at it, let's get your company to follow you (the business man) around and see how rude and demanding you are be to those agents and flight attendants that everyone is so quick to bash.MarkMyWords said:I love the idea of ghost riders. They can evaluate everything from check-in to baggage retrieval. I would absolutely love this job! Sign me up!
If I were creating this type of job, not only would my ghost riders evaluate Agents and Flight Attendants, but would also evaluate facilities.
No, not you Markmywords...I am just making a point. I know not everyone either, so don't even go their Piney.
It is no secret, but the traveling public can be the ABSOLUTE worst.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
While I know that ghost riding is not a novel idea, it is one that has been lost in the shuffle. I think it is time to put some life back in the concept but give them very specific guidelines and make sure they know what service is expected. The last time we had ghost riders, it was generally VFF's that took the time to fill out survey type forms. While this speaks volumes about their service experience, it didn't address issues like facilities and the VFF probably wasn't aware of what the procedures were. I agree that consistancy is huge. We should deliver the same product on each flight, every time. Then the customer knows what to expect every time they fly with us.
Twicebaked -
I agree that the traveling public can be extremely demanding and under certain circumstances they are downright irrational and unruly. When I was an agent, some of the best letters that I got were from ghost riders that saw how I handled the situation at hand. How you deal with these types of customers is just as important as how you take care of the average customer. You and I can both probably give examples of people that are very good and handeling confrontation and there are employees that create confrontation. Perhaps you could use these kind of evaluations to applaude the good and help retrain the bad. Sometimes, becoming aware of your behavior is half the battle.
Twicebaked -
I agree that the traveling public can be extremely demanding and under certain circumstances they are downright irrational and unruly. When I was an agent, some of the best letters that I got were from ghost riders that saw how I handled the situation at hand. How you deal with these types of customers is just as important as how you take care of the average customer. You and I can both probably give examples of people that are very good and handeling confrontation and there are employees that create confrontation. Perhaps you could use these kind of evaluations to applaude the good and help retrain the bad. Sometimes, becoming aware of your behavior is half the battle.
Perky Patty
Newbie
- Nov 30, 2003
- 7
- 0
One reason service inconsistencies would occur, at least in the past, is because of the size of airplane.
The service code for a 757 or 767 travelling from Pit-Bwi (to get in place for the London flight), for example, would be for an "express" beverage service vs. a "full" beverage. Why? Because it would have been physically impossible to serve 200+ people a full beverage in 40 minutes of flying time. However, the service code for the same flight on a 737 would have been for a "full" beverage service. This, I believe, is where some of the confusion began. And, I believe, why service codes were changed altogether to create consistency.
I was deadheading on one of these flights once (on a 767), and overheard two passengers behind me complaining to the effect that the f/a's must have been lazy on that particular flight because they didn't feel like taking out the carts! I sat there and simmered, then I realized that they had no way of knowing that service codes were predicated upon the size of the a/c being flown, and not necessarily the route.
The service code for a 757 or 767 travelling from Pit-Bwi (to get in place for the London flight), for example, would be for an "express" beverage service vs. a "full" beverage. Why? Because it would have been physically impossible to serve 200+ people a full beverage in 40 minutes of flying time. However, the service code for the same flight on a 737 would have been for a "full" beverage service. This, I believe, is where some of the confusion began. And, I believe, why service codes were changed altogether to create consistency.
I was deadheading on one of these flights once (on a 767), and overheard two passengers behind me complaining to the effect that the f/a's must have been lazy on that particular flight because they didn't feel like taking out the carts! I sat there and simmered, then I realized that they had no way of knowing that service codes were predicated upon the size of the a/c being flown, and not necessarily the route.
Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
- 18
Perky,
Love that name by the way...lol
Although that makes sense to me and should to people "in the know"...,
Where is this written??
I have done extensive work within policies and procedures as of late and nowhere have I seen this theory written.
I am not saying that you are wrong, but...
Is this something we as flight attendants made up?
I know there is an easy solution to all of this, but not sure what it is.
Maybe when boarding passes are printed there can be a reference code for pax to see what the service should be. I.E. full bev, express.
This way they know exactly what to expect for the aircraft type IF in fact what you are saying is fact.
I am going to check into that in the morning and post what the "real" stroy is.
Love that name by the way...lol
Although that makes sense to me and should to people "in the know"...,
Where is this written??
I have done extensive work within policies and procedures as of late and nowhere have I seen this theory written.
I am not saying that you are wrong, but...
Is this something we as flight attendants made up?
I know there is an easy solution to all of this, but not sure what it is.
Maybe when boarding passes are printed there can be a reference code for pax to see what the service should be. I.E. full bev, express.
This way they know exactly what to expect for the aircraft type IF in fact what you are saying is fact.
I am going to check into that in the morning and post what the "real" stroy is.
Perky Patty
Newbie
- Nov 30, 2003
- 7
- 0
Twice,
The service codes I was referring to were printed right on the trip sheets, next to each segment. But this was over 10 years ago and the levels of service are different now than they were then.
Also, it was easy to tell if your flight was express, as catering would leave apple/oj juice boxes for those flights only..
The service codes I was referring to were printed right on the trip sheets, next to each segment. But this was over 10 years ago and the levels of service are different now than they were then.
Also, it was easy to tell if your flight was express, as catering would leave apple/oj juice boxes for those flights only..
