Beverage Service On Short Flights?

[Twicebaked]

You know Firstamendment...your last few posts with your duhhhhs and "get a life" and what ever else is very immature. Can you not debate like an adult?

Certainy, some polices are not always followed, but when you are providing a certain service that passengers are expecting (written on the itinerary) it SHOULD be done...end of story.

I am not going to continue this debate with you.

That is why US is slipping in service. We used to be tops with service and now it sucks.

So, don't go there with me.

 

[Todd B]

:cop:

Please avoid directing the topic towards an individual poster.

Thanks.

 

[JS]

Originally posted by firstamendment:

If the FAA didn't require f/a's, we definitely wouldn't be there. I've been say that for years. The airlines would just have vending machines in the galleys. F/A's are there for SAFETY reasons, NOT service.

Actually, the airlines wouldn't have vending machines on the plane. Those suckers are heavy! Ever try to tip one over?

If we are to go by your logic, let's pay fireman only for the time they are on a call...none of the time away from home or cooking their dinner, or sleeping.

Let's pay the policeman only for the time they actually arrest someone.

That's not my logic. I was suggesting paying the flight attendants during the take-off and landing phase of flight, regardless of whether they are just sitting there or organizing an evacuation. It's exactly the same as paying a fireman to sit in the firehouse all day, not fighting fires because they aren't any at the moment.

Js, if a f/a's safety is a risk,we do have the right to curb the service. Anyway, there is no such thing as a no service flight. Special request for needy people like you are taken on the shortest of flights.

You're not very good at debating, are you? You lose -- I have never asked for a beverage on a request-only flight.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

JS said:
"That's not my logic. I was suggesting paying the flight attendants during the take-off and landing phase of flight, regardless of whether they are just sitting there or organizing an evacuation. It's exactly the same as paying a fireman to sit in the firehouse all day, not fighting fires because they aren't any at the moment."

Are you for real or do you just have no clue as to what your talking about? I would really hope it's the latter.
So what if a fire breaks out during the flight or a decompression? We won't be getting paid according to your system so, your screwed. Good grief just be quiet before you make yourself look even more clueless.

 

[firstamendment]

You know Firstamendment...your last few posts with your duhhhhs and "get a life" and what ever else is very immature. Can you not debate like an adult?

Certainy, some polices are not always followed, but when you are providing a certain service that passengers are expecting (written on the itinerary) it SHOULD be done...end of story.

I am not going to continue this debate with you.

That is why US is slipping in service. We used to be tops with service and now it sucks.

So, don't go there with me.

I could frankly give a crap what you think of my post. You just hate that you were proved silly. Oh excuse me that when I read something incredably stupid and respond in such a way that YOU deem it immature. I suppose I would rather be immature then ignorant.

Duh=your kidding, right or you just figuring that out?

Get a life= I would think you would have something better to complain about.

Believe me, if I could say what I wanted without the moderators sending a dirty letter, my response would have been more fitting as adult content

You were the one to point out how everything is policy, not me. You made that a big deal, not me. I was pointing out to you that you can't just pick what policy you want to choose, regardless if it is expected from the customer .

BTW, US Aiways is slipping not because people disagree with you , but because of incompetent management who has so outraged their employees that they no longer care.

Just remember that you can have your opinion of me and that is fine. It's none of my business what you think of me and visa versa.

 

[JS]

JS said:
"That's not my logic. I was suggesting paying the flight attendants during the take-off and landing phase of flight, regardless of whether they are just sitting there or organizing an evacuation. It's exactly the same as paying a fireman to sit in the firehouse all day, not fighting fires because they aren't any at the moment."

Are you for real or do you just have no clue as to what your talking about? I would really hope it's the latter.
So what if a fire breaks out during the flight or a decompression? We won't be getting paid according to your system so, your screwed. Good grief just be quiet before you make yourself look even more clueless.

I'm not suggesting that US actually implement this. It would make a cheap product even cheaper, and realistically, the unions won't agree.

What I meant was that the reason US hasn't cut beverage service is because, unlike meals, the labor savings are zero unless you pay the flight attendants only during take-off and landing.

As far as an in-flight fire is concerned, fine, pay the flight attendants the full block time for that flight.

My main point is that cutting beverage service doesn't save any money and only pushes more passengers towards the carriers with better in-flight service.

 

[PITbull]

You know Firstamendment...your last few posts with your duhhhhs and "get a life" and what ever else is very immature. Can you not debate like an adult?

Certainy, some polices are not always followed, but when you are providing a certain service that passengers are expecting (written on the itinerary) it SHOULD be done...end of story.

I am not going to continue this debate with you.

That is why US is slipping in service. We used to be tops with service and now it sucks.

So, don't go there with me.

Twiced baked,

Correction, service is not suffering because the f/as limit the service on short segments.

Please don't start with that mind set. If that were the case, SW, wihich provides limited service on all their flights, would be suffering. Ain't happening.

What customers want today is a simple consistant fare. Doesn't matter how many cokes service you provide on the flight. The carrier creates the demand for its product. "Keep it simple".

And JS,

Stop prevoking arguments among our flight attendants, will ya?

 

[firstamendment]

JS

I am not debating you, so there is nothing to win.

I have worked those kinds of flights many times and there MUST be some common sense on service...turbulence, flight time, the direction the airplane lands, etc. I have worked a flight like PHL-LGA and on one day the flight may be literally 20 minutes. If the landing pattern is the long way around, it may take 40 minutes. Now I can say that at times when I knew it was going to take longer and we had say 30 customers, my crew has served something. Yeah, it's inconsistant to do that and against policy.

To the passenger I am their pal because I went againt the company policy and served. The next crew will be looked upon as lazy because they followed the rules and offered request only. It seems that no matter what we do on those flights, you're criticized.

When it gets down to it, there really are no easy answers. I just get upset when somehow some of you...including twicebaked...seem to think we are trying to be defiant. Infact, I hate working those fights because there is always that debate inside....so if some of us get alittle immature or direct over it ( sorry twicebaked, it just came to me) it is because many of are fighting what we would like to do versus the rules and it's not always on the side of not serving, but feeling like you can be flexable. In the case like the above stated, I try to say something like "sense we have very few people and the flight is longer than usual, blah, blah...so see it is also two sided.

You know, I have a hard time believing only US f/a's go through this and that All the SWA serve ALL the time.

 

[JS]

Here's a couple of suggestions --

1) Copy Delta's move and do "Fast Break" on short flights. Handing out a choice of cranberry juice, lemonade or water is very fast. For some reason, Delta will make the announcement, and then they ask EVERY SINGLE passenger "would you like cranberry juice, lemonade or water?" The time savings evaporate for the most part, so make two clear announcements and then pass 'em out ASAP.

2) I recall a very short morning Dash-8 flight where the flight attendant passed out a cup of orange juice to each passenger (full flight, too). I thought that was a great idea. There wasn't enough time to do a full service, or even a "Fast Break" version, but there was just enough time to give each person the same thing.

Unfortunately, later that day on an even shorter flight (PIT to CAK), I was treated to a condescending in-flight announcement regarding no service for the short flight. Just be blunt and tell us that the flight is too short; don't whine about it and make us feel guilty for even thinking that a beverage would be served.


Regarding Southwest -- they have short flights, but they do not have super-short flights. They don't fly TUL-OKC, SAT-AUS, LAX-SAN, etc.

 

[exagony]

Originally posted by firstamendment:

If the FAA didn't require f/a's, we definitely wouldn't be there. I've been say that for years. The airlines would just have vending machines in the galleys. F/A's are there for SAFETY reasons, NOT service.

If we are to go by your logic, let's pay fireman only for the time they are on a call...none of the time away from home or cooking their dinner, or sleeping.

Let's pay the policeman only for the time they actually arrest someone.

That's not my logic. I was suggesting paying the flight attendants during the take-off and landing phase of flight, regardless of whether they are just sitting there or organizing an evacuation. It's exactly the same as paying a fireman to sit in the firehouse all day, not fighting fires because they aren't any at the moment.






You're not very good at debating, are you? You lose -- I have never asked for a beverage on a request-only flight.

If the FAA didn't require f/a's, we definitely wouldn't be there. I've been say that for years. The airlines would just have vending machines in the galleys. F/A's are there for SAFETY reasons, NOT service. [/QUOTE]

1. I hope they are there for safety because they sure as hel! don't provide any service. I'm sure glad you have bought hook line and sinker into the "We are here for safety" - if this was true than all FA's would be 6'5" linebackers capable of lifting any pax out of an a/c in an emergency. I would argue that most current FA's have a hard enough time lifting their overnight bags into the overheads never mind a injured pax in a burning plane. Poitical Correctness gone wild.


Actually, the airlines wouldn't have vending machines on the plane. Those suckers are heavy! Ever try to tip one over?

2. Have you seen alot of the FA's lately? I think they could save weight on the a/c by putting vending machines on.

If we are to go by your logic, let's pay fireman only for the time they are on a call...none of the time away from home or cooking their dinner, or sleeping.

Let's pay the policeman only for the time they actually arrest someone.

3. Unlike FA's and pilots these people actually put their lives on the line on a daily basis. I don't read every day about the poor FA who gave their life to save someone - I do with the PD and FD.

 

[KCFlyer]

Regarding Southwest -- they have short flights, but they do not have super-short flights. They don't fly TUL-OKC, SAT-AUS, LAX-SAN, etc.

No, but they do have OKC-DAL with a flying time of about 30 minutes - and I have been on full flights where I not only got a beverage, I was asked if I wanted a second one. The only time I didn't get drink service was when the flight was very rough and the pilot ordered the FA's to remain seated during the flight.

My mother-in-law was a "hostess" for TWA back in the late 40's (a much "less safe" era in air travel), and her primary job was to provide service. She is now 82 years old, and on a flight she was on a couple of weeks ago, she was assigned a seat in a bulkhead row (no underseat storage) and the overhead bin was full (for some reason, Delta no longer preboards the elderly). The FA snapped at her that she couldn't have that bag there (it was an equal opportunity snap - the 40ish businessman was also informed he couldn't keep his briefcase there) and the FA said she would find someplace to stow it. My mother-in-law asked if she should follow her, whereupon the FA rolled her eyes and said "of course". Now...in the "old days", the FA would have taken the bag and stowed it for her. But now, it's not part of the duties to do that, as I suppose the risk of injury is too great. But I wonder, if an FA can risk being injured by putting a bag that an 82 year old woman is perfectly capable of carrying and lifting into an overhead bin, then I wonder how capable that FA would be in assisiting me and my 200+ pound frame in the event of an accident.

 

[sfb]

Whether or not the flight attendants are on a flight primarily for passenger safety, the fact remains that the service they provide (as a secondary function) will be one of the most important differentiators for US Airways as they face ever-increasing competition at PHL (and other hubs) from the likes of Southwest, AirTran, jetBlue, ATA, America West, etc. If passengers *perceive* that the LCC's offer equal or better onboard service, what reason can you give them to book US Airways instead of an LCC.

Yes, I'll agree that WN is helped by having 3 flight attendants to serve 137 passengers, as compared to two in back for 126 on a US A320. Perhaps there's some creative way to get the flight attendant in front to take a small bit of the burden off the ones in back. But if WN can manage to provide drink service *in normal conditions* to a full flight from OKC to DAL (181 mi.) or AUS-HOU (160 mi.), US ought to be able to do it on anything over 200 miles.

There are creative ways to improve the service experience even if the flight will be short and/or the weather too rough to allow in-flight service. If there's time before departure, take drink orders or pass out bottled water or peanuts/pretzels/whatever (yeah, I know you're not on the clock then and thus working for free).

The thing is, you can't afford to let your customers think that the LCC's offer a better product. Once you lose your product differentiation, you are done.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

Per company policy the 1st class attendant is dedicated to 1st class. They can't be trapped in the aft galley serving drinks with carts in the isle. I don't think the people in 1st would like that when they want another drink. Most if not ALL 1st class F/As come back in coach and run through with a trash bag. That's about all they can do. Unless we come up with some really time saving or innovative ways to let 2 F/A's serve the entire coach cabin in 30-40 minutes safely, I don't see the point.

 

[Twicebaked]

Pittbull,
There are many reasons why the service is slipping. Yes, number one is the fact that management has cut us to the bare bones. I am not going to open the whole "f/a" thing up this time. I am done with this topic, it is getting REALLY boring.

 

[KCFlyer]

Per company policy the 1st class attendant is dedicated to 1st class. They can't be trapped in the aft galley serving drinks with carts in the isle. I don't think the people in 1st would like that when they want another drink. Most if not ALL 1st class F/As come back in coach and run through with a trash bag. That's about all they can do. Unless we come up with some really time saving or innovative ways to let 2 F/A's serve the entire coach cabin in 30-40 minutes safely, I don't see the point.

How about if the F class FA was to work the end of the first cart nearest the front of the plane...that way, if an F class passenger wants another drink, it's a quick, unobstructed path to the front cabin to tend to their needs, then back the the rear cabin to finish assisting. Of course, SWA doesn't use a drink cart - perhaps US could dispense of the drink carts on short hops.

And yes, it all does come down to the "service" aspects provided by the FA's that will differentiate the "product". As an addendum to my earlier post, on Southwest, my daughter and I were sitting in the "lounge" seats, so there wasn't room to stow my daughters carry-on (exact style and size of the one carried by my mother in law). THat FA asked if she could put it in a bin for us...took it, showed us where she was putting it, and then put it up. Took her all of about 15 seconds. And left the impression of good service.