BAGGAGE HANDLERS THREAD

[700UW]

Once again you dont know what you are reading.

The old CO CBA is not an IAM CBA, it was from the IBT.

 

[freedom]

yes , but it was on the 141 website , and it looked from a glance like it was the new contract ....... I see that all we have at this time is the cover sheet you linked too ......

tell me 700 ... if I don't want to be in the IAMNPF , why should I be forced by my own union to contribute money to it ?

please , i'd love to hear you explain that one ....... if I want that money which the company sends to the IAMNPF to instead be sent to MY 401K ... why shouldn't that be allowed to happen ?

 

[700UW]

You arent forced, if you dont want to belong to it, then go seek employment else where.

Just like the workers at the outstations that you voted to be forced out of a job, did they want to be laidoff?

You arent contributing your own money, the company is, and they negotiated and agreed to it, and you voted for the TA, so you voted for and agreed to the terms, now didnt you?

Do you not understand its not your money?

The company would gladly eliminate you from the IAMNPF and they wont give you the $1.05 per hour.

You really dont know how to comprehend, they just agreed to a TA, all over the 141 web page it says they are assembling the CBA to get out to the membership.

Do you not know how to comprehend what you read?

 

[freedom]

You arent forced, if you dont want to belong to it, then go seek employment else where.

Just like the workers at the outstations that you voted to be forced out of a job, did they want to be laidoff?

You arent contributing your own money, the company is, and they negotiated and agreed to it, and you voted for the TA, so you voted for and agreed to the terms, now didnt you?

Do you not understand its not your money?

The company would gladly eliminate you from the IAMNPF and they wont give you the $1.05 per hour.

You really dont know how to comprehend, they just agreed to a TA, all over the 141 web page it says they are assembling the CBA to get out to the membership.

Do you not know how to comprehend what you read?

your good at evasion ......

first of all , let us dispense with the "if you don't like it leave " talk ...I wouldn't tell any of my brothers and sisters to leave if they didn't like something ... I would tell them to fight for what they think is right ....

secondly that IS my money ...no , it's not coming out of my paycheck .. but it IS counting as part of my compensation package ... I mean the company IS putting forth funds on my behalf are they not ?

For those of you who are not familiar with the IAM pension argument ... there's been a lot of concern that in the new US Airways contract that we were pushing for , that the union might try to push for an increased contribution rate from the company to go towards on pension .... and if the company is paying more for one thing .....that means there will be less funds to go towards other things , like say our hourly pay ....

I did vote for the TA ....... and when I started with the IAM as I've told you and many people before , the IAM came around and literally screamed from the mountain top how wonderful the IAMNPF was going to be , and how I was going to retire in style with TONS OF MONEY ... and then they changed the rules of the game on me ...

come on 700 , admit it .... there's nothing wrong with allowing our brothers and sisters to chose where that 1.05 an hour goes ... our 401K or as some would still like the IAMNPF ...

mmm , are you perhaps nervous that if enough of us jump ship from the IAMNPF, the pension that you now receive could be cut ? don't be worried , the IAMNPF has stated time and time again that it's funded to 105% , so please , support the rest of your brothers and sisters who would like all funds for their retirement moved to their 401k accounts ..

 

[mike33]

I like the United contract in some aspects ..... but in others I don't like it ... that retro pay is only 3 percent ... that's not much for years and years of waiting for a new contract ....

So tell me how much it would be for your yearly pay i 2010/2011/2012? i've calculated mine ?...have you or are you just greasing the monkey again!

 

[700UW]

You did choose when you voted for the TA.

You voted for it, did you not read it?

It clearly stated that benefit isnt guaranteed at the funding level.

You voted for it, you laidoff your coworkers to gain money, plain and simple.

Sorry dude, I dont receive a pension from the IAMNPF, my pension was from US and it was terminated in bankruptcy and I am not old enough to collect it yet. But keep trying.

You really need to take the time and learn how to comprehend what you read.

You really make yourself look like a fool.

 

[freedom]

You did choose when you voted for the TA.

You voted for it, did you not read it?

It clearly stated that benefit isnt guaranteed at the funding level.

You voted for it, you laidoff your coworkers to gain money, plain and simple.

Sorry dude, I dont receive a pension from the IAMNPF, my pension was from US and it was terminated in bankruptcy and I am not old enough to collect it yet. But keep trying.

You really need to take the time and learn how to comprehend what you read.

You really make yourself look like a fool.

sometimes you just have to battle it out .... i'm sure our new AA brothers can see that i'm not the best with the small details ... but I DO get the big picture ...

and once again , you keep skipping my most obvious question ...

Can ANYONE make a good argument why we NEED to be forced to participate in the IAMNPF ?

Why are the United workers REQIRING their company to fund the IAMNPF at 6% ? why not put more of that into their 401K's ?

Because even though they tell you the IAMNPF is a separate organization , they seem to go hand in hand with the IAM ...They will tell you how wonderful they are , but you won't hear them tout any losses or adjustments they've had to make to plan members ... only the good is what you will hear , never the bad ...

So While this new United TA is good , there appear to be areas that could be improved , like the 6 something percent to the IAMNPF ...

you work hard for your money don't you brothers and sisters ... shouldn't YOU be the ones who determine how it's invested .... if that money is lost or not ?

I think that if the IAMNPF want's our business ... then the next time we sign up for healthcare , they need to come around like the other companies that are trying to push their 401K plans , and compete with them ... just because they have IAM in their name doesn't mean that I want to choose them over other options .. and my union shouldn't be deciding my retirement future for me ... that's not the kind of representation that I want .

 

[700UW]

You dont get the big picture at all, you screwed your coworkers out of their job for your own financial benefit and gain.

You are not a unionist, you are all about yourself and the company, you never had to battle for what you got, you gained it from the east's backs.

You dont even know how the pension works, you make a fool out yourself and we all show you how wrong you are on things you post.

The pension plan is separate from the union, and you voted for so stop crying over sour grapes.

And its apparent you dont read the plan's annual report, by law they have to report the good with the bad and report any short comings that might occur in the future.

You really need to educate yourself.

United isnt being required, they negotiated it and agreed to it, if UA management has no problem with it, then why do you? Are you now the CEO or CFO for UA?

 

[freedom]

ah the past ...........

the past is gone now ...... what we must look to is our future ....

and for the future of our AA brothers and sisters , I want them to be able to make their own decisions ...They deserve nothing less ....

We can argue day and night about the old contract .... you can scream at the top of your lungs that I voted for the TA (which I did ) .......

but I am not talking about our current TA .... I am thinking about our FUTURE Transitional agreement ...

and for the future of every single fleet service worker and clerk ... I want them to have FULL control over money that is negotiated through collective bargaining for their retirement , to be in THEIR control ...

If the IAM gave people the option of where their own retirement money went , we wouldn't have to have this conversation , but even the United contract proves that once you accept the IAM , you are seemingly chained to the IAMNPF ...

 

[mike33]

sometimes you just have to battle it out .... i'm sure our new AA brothers can see that i'm not the best with the small details ... but I DO get the big picture ...

and once again , you keep skipping my most obvious question ...

Can ANYONE make a good argument why we NEED to be forced to participate in the IAMNPF ?

Why are the United workers REQIRING their company to fund the IAMNPF at 6% ? why not put more of that into their 401K's ?

Because even though they tell you the IAMNPF is a separate organization , they seem to go hand in hand with the IAM ...They will tell you how wonderful they are , but you won't hear them tout any losses or adjustments they've had to make to plan members ... only the good is what you will hear , never the bad ...

So While this new United TA is good , there appear to be areas that could be improved , like the 6 something percent to the IAMNPF ...

you work hard for your money don't you brothers and sisters ... shouldn't YOU be the ones who determine how it's invested .... if that money is lost or not ?

I think that if the IAMNPF want's our business ... then the next time we sign up for healthcare , they need to come around like the other companies that are trying to push their 401K plans , and compete with them ... just because they have IAM in their name doesn't mean that I want to choose them over other options .. and my union shouldn't be deciding my retirement future for me ... that's not the kind of representation that I want .

Like i said...talk to your AGC in person about it.....you can do that can't you?.......I will guarantee you won't !!!!!

First of all the UA TA has not been voted on, so dont assume anything until it is. It's not your TA to assume anything!!!!!!

You need to direct your energy to making sure we go into TA talks with a contract. Plain and simple. Tell me How would it feel to go into your 2nd BK contract knowing you have worked so hard the last few yrs to bring your company to Prophitability so they can send you back to another BK contract? Because thats what it is !!!!

 

[freedom]

Like i said...talk to your AGC in person about it.....you can do that can't you?.......I will guarantee you won't !!!!!

First of all the UA TA has not been voted on, so dont assume anything until it is. It's not your TA to assume anything!!!!!!

You need to direct your energy to making sure we go into TA talks with a contract. Plain and simple. Tell me How would it feel to go into your 2nd BK contract knowing you have worked so hard the last few yrs to bring your company to Prophitability so they can send you to another BK contract?

I will discuss this with my co-workers here in PHX , but at the moment , I am not sure we should continue to spend time pushing for a new contract ...

it is my belief that we will spend more time finalizing a new contract , and then the company will come to us and say that they are not prepared to negotiate more until we have a new combined work group .. I am almost certain they will say that ..

Let me be the devils advocate if I may .....

If i'm the company ,and your the union , i'm going to lead you on for a great many months ... then suddenly as the merger begins to gain steam , i'm going to say to you and ALL the unions at AA and US airways , that the only contracts this company will sign are JOINT contracts ... that we will not bargain with each half of the employee work groups ....it has to be the ENTIRE work group in a new Joint contract ...

boom ... that's how they like to do it At US airways ... I mean why don't the pilots have new contracts eh ? couldn't one side or another that has it's contract at it's amendable date just negoatie a new contract ?

I am of the mind that we should move as quickly as possible to decide upon a Union , and THEN move for a joint contract ... why risk many months of trying to get a new contract from this company and then deal with the prospects of being sidelined ?

If the TWU win's then the IAM can simply explain all of the progress and what has already been discussed in current talks with the company to the new negotiators for the TWU ..

 

[mike33]

I will discuss this with my co-workers here in PHX , but at the moment , I am not sure we should continue to spend time pushing for a new contract ...

I knew you wouldn't discuss it with your AGC ( that you voted for because you trusted him ). Talk to the IAM themselves. Thats how you learn about them !

 

[mike33]

Let me be the devils advocate if I may .....

If i'm the company ,and your the union , i'm going to lead you on for a great many months ... then suddenly as the merger begins to gain steam , i'm going to say to you and ALL the unions at AA and US airways , that the only contracts this company will sign are JOINT contracts ... that we will not bargain with each half of the employee work groups ....it has to be the ENTIRE work group in a new Joint contract ...

Do you even know that there is a mediator involved?.... Do you even know what that means?

 

[freedom]

I knew you wouldn't discuss it with your AGC ( that you voted for because you trusted him ). Talk to the IAM themselves. Thats how you learn about them !

Well mike , I don't need to talk to my current AGC , to talk about what went down in the past do I ?

or am I the only one remembering US Airways management refusing to negotiate with the separate halves of each work group ?

At this moment I don't have my AGC , I have you , and the others .... by working TOGETHER , by remembering as a group what happened to us before , by sharing out thoughts and ideas , even when not completely accurate , do we make progress and move forwards ...

i am stating that i believe that this company will not negotiate with us until we have a combined work group ... i am almost certain that , that is what they did before , and they will do it again ...


Do you even know that there is a mediator involved?.... Do you even know what that means?

ok Mike .......

if you know what's going on , why don't you start from the start and fill in our new brothers and sisters .. why dish it out piece meal eh ?

Come on , don't be shy , tell them what's going on ... give us the "Scoop " because if you claim i know nothing , i can tell you they know less ....

They need to be as well informed as to events that we are dealing with as we are with theirs .....

 

[robbedagain]

I will discuss this with my co-workers here in PHX , but at the moment , I am not sure we should continue to spend time pushing for a new contract ...

it is my belief that we will spend more time finalizing a new contract , and then the company will come to us and say that they are not prepared to negotiate more until we have a new combined work group .. I am almost certain they will say that ..

Let me be the devils advocate if I may .....

If i'm the company ,and your the union , i'm going to lead you on for a great many months ... then suddenly as the merger begins to gain steam , i'm going to say to you and ALL the unions at AA and US airways , that the only contracts this company will sign are JOINT contracts ... that we will not bargain with each half of the employee work groups ....it has to be the ENTIRE work group in a new Joint contract ...

boom ... that's how they like to do it At US airways ... I mean why don't the pilots have new contracts eh ? couldn't one side or another that has it's contract at it's amendable date just negoatie a new contract ?

I am of the mind that we should move as quickly as possible to decide upon a Union , and THEN move for a joint contract ... why risk many months of trying to get a new contract from this company and then deal with the prospects of being sidelined ?

If the TWU win's then the IAM can simply explain all of the progress and what has already been discussed in current talks with the company to the new negotiators for the TWU ..

freedom... answer this why in the hell should we NOT spend too much time to get a new contract?? why do you support the twu? why are you sooo dam concerned about the company putting 1.05 an hr into the pension? if your that concerned about the 401k go to fidelity.com and sign up and they can do payroll deduction. secondly and what infuriates me as it does for most folks why the f..k would this corrupt mgmt go behind our backs to strike deals with the twu... as for voting for the current contract... you chose to vote out your coworkers just to get that flippin raise.. pathetic... if it comes to only the iam and the twu.... its my opin the iam would win given american's employees hatred of the twu just from some of the folks i used to speak too