August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[charlie Brown]

"I had to get to a hub, let them get to a hub." That mentality has to change. That mentality is exactly what the company wants. The only represented fleet employees are in the hubs. In the end; the number of represented employees has been diminished; which translates into less leverage in future contract negotiations. A slow and deliberate decline in fleet's compensation, benefits and worth. This selfish attitude must change. It's time for all of fleet to advance the interests of the common good for all existing members. This is the challenge of the NC, the District Leadership and membership. When senior employees from sub contracted stations have "to get to a hub" to preserve their employment; they will not be the only ones adversly impacted. 33 + years I'll be taking a nice daylight shift from somebody when I have "to get to a hub."

I don't disagree with you or Tim at all on this scope issue. And as far as educating the members, you can get through to a lot of them. But there is quite a big number that thinks me me me. Not trying to put anyone down, just saying if there is one thing that I see this company has done a great job doing, and that is dividing the membership through years of beating them down. Educating the membership is important, that's why I love sights like this. But the members have to somehow come back to caring for the group as a whole, and not just for the Individual.

 

[charlie Brown]

I would think most hub employees would apprehend that since many of them are out of towners, plus the local guys always have their seniority tweaked down. Dunno

A lot of the older guys do get it. But don't forget you now have a new generation of new hires the last several of years in these hubs. These guys are already night shift. All they care about is the money.

 

[DFWFSC]

Under our current FSC contract at AA, any station with 15 or less mainline flights per day can be outsourced. Now, in order to get a station staffed or re-staffed there has to be at least 20 mainline a day. Awful language if you ask me, 15 to loose it and 20 get it back. AA will run 20 flights a day at a station for 11 months then cut a few trip for a month to stay under the threshold for insourcing. AA know's that most spoke stations will never see 20 mainline again, and the few that do will always be considered seasonal such as Seattle and Phoenix.

 

[rockit2]

I don't disagree with you or Tim at all on this scope issue. And as far as educating the members, you can get through to a lot of them. But there is quite a big number that thinks me me me. Not trying to put anyone down, just saying if there is one thing that I see this company has done a great job doing, and that is dividing the membership through years of beating them down. Educating the membership is important, that's why I love sights like this. But the members have to somehow come back to caring for the group as a whole, and not just for the Individual.

I also agree about the scope issues, but we as a group need to send a message to the negotiating table, we need to give the NC some backing. I'm talking about letting the company know we are a work safe group. What good is a fifty dollar pay out if you don't have the security of a wage and benefit package to support your family. That fifty dollar payout drives alot of people to do thing they wouldn't normally do and the management knows it, they laugh all the way to the bank when they add that money to your paycheck because they know they just got alot more out of each employee without setteling your contract.

 

[psa8979]

Brothers/Sisters i suggest any one who wants to know how to negotiate with LCC/DP/AH when it comes to SCOPE ask a former PSA Union Member for a copy and read the scope that WE had in the PSA/IBT CBA before losing it ALL and becoming non-union for 8 long years. We had limited P/T in ALL stations, BUMPING RIGHTS to ANY station your seniority held, and preferential bidding when furloughed from HOME station. Scope has to cost NO VALUE AL / DP/ LCC $$$$ to protect the small,medium,large, and HUB IAM Members. Contracts NOW ! Merger LATER ! Mahalo nui loa

 

[Kev3188]

BUMPING RIGHTS to ANY station your seniority held...

I'm always surprised why this has been pissed away by everyone... At NW, that's how our language read. When I first started there, I just assumed that was the "norm," not this juniority BS...

 

[psa8979]

We are at the TIPPING POINT ! Brothers/Sisters as UNION Workers . Now is the TIME ! for those who have survived the Deregulation of the Airline Industry,Gutting of CBA's, Bankruptcy/Mergers, and CONTRACTING of our JOBS ! Members whatever ones Seniority or past Airline Allegiance/Union its time to STEP UP or STFU ! SOLIDARITY WORKS !

 

[Jester]

I'm always surprised why this has been pissed away by everyone... At NW, that's how our language read. When I first started there, I just assumed that was the "norm," not this juniority BS...

I think most people are uneasy in knowing that someone from another station might "bump and flush" them out of a job just because their seniority is lower, especially the typically lower seniority guys on the West. I recall hearing horror stories from guys at NW who were forced out, spent a week in a new station after someone with higher seniority arrived and they were bumped out to another station. To be sure "Juniority" is a confusing CF to explain or understand in practice, but it appears to be a compromise solution insofar that full-time furloughed people are guaranteed a job somewhere without displacing other lower seniority people in another otherwise unaffected station, unless all other full-time positions are unavailable elsewhere in the system, and then it is the lowest full-time persons systemwide. It should be noted that part-time people have no guarantee of a job during a furlough, as juniority does not apply.

 

[roabilly]

A lot of the older guys do get it. But don't forget you now have a new generation of new hires the last several of years in these hubs. These guys are already night shift. All they care about is the money.

I find it ironic that the “Get to a Hub” mentality is being viewed as something “new”, and a byproduct of lost scope. This personnel shift has been going on since the 70’s-- long before anyone at Piedmont Airlines was even Union!

We saw the hand writing on the wall as to where the Industry was headed decades ago, that is exactly why we eventually voted in the Union in the first place! During the late 70's, 80’s, and early 90's-- station, after station was downsized, and contracted out. The company used this strategy to flush senior non-contract employees out of the system, as many elected to receive meager furlough options, while the remainder went to places like PHL, while more desirable locations like CLT was closed to transfers!

I can remember everyone in ROA, RIC, and GSO talking about how desperately they wanted to transfer to CLT to save their jobs... only to be told there were no openings, or only limited part-time openings.

I lived it in color, and it was no fun being in that position with no Union rules...
The Company made the rules up as they went on a daily basis, and we were at their mercy. As a result, large numbers of hardworking employees never got to remain with the company all the way to retirement, and the few that did, lost most of their pensions, and ALL of their healthcare benefits in BK1!

Everyone here needs a good history lesson!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Roabily,
You, it seems, need a good history lesson.
We were actually opening stations in the 80s until the usairways merger. And no stations were closed, as you said, before the iam contract.
I do remember management saying if union came in then it would work with the union in eliminating most stations.
Unfortunately that is exactly what happened.

The 1999 book had 82 stations, including roa of course (i sat with roa local chairman bill jernigan at brickners local chairman gathering explaining the ta).
The onslaught soon began with about twenty stations a year getting whacked until only about 15 were left until another 15 or so were grafted win with the westie merger.
Moving forward, although you are retiring in october, we cant sign anything lessoning catering, tower work or the sacred 69 seat scope language.

 

[Tim Nelson]

To 700
During the ibt raid, werent you saying that since the language in the mx contract was for iam, that switching unions meant the ibt couldnt continue some things in the contract? Then didnt u use pfaa in regards to the dues collection?

Therefore, my question is, if ord goes twu and with the association then cant members in ord or elsewhere stop paying dues since the contract is "iam" by your reasoning?

One of my coworkers claimed he can stop paying dues.

 

[700UW]

The certification will be transferred to the Association, its not a raid and unions dont change.

No, the agreement is written that both CBAs are status quo until a JCBA is reached after SCS is achieved.

The pension is IAM specific, as is DCO.

The members of US who would work in a TWU station, are still under the IAM agreement and are still IAM members, not TWU members.

 

[roabilly]

Nelson, don’t even try to feed me your political bullshit!

ROA catering was closed, and outsourced in 1980... all growth in ROA was sent to CLT as ROA downsized, ALL before the 99 agreement. I was an affected employee... I was there!

F you and your anti-IAM rhetoric!

 

[ograc]

I don't disagree with you or Tim at all on this scope issue. And as far as educating the members, you can get through to a lot of them. But there is quite a big number that thinks me me me. Not trying to put anyone down, just saying if there is one thing that I see this company has done a great job doing, and that is dividing the membership through years of beating them down. Educating the membership is important, that's why I love sights like this. But the members have to somehow come back to caring for the group as a whole, and not just for the Individual.

Caring for the membership, as a whole is the fundamental value upon which organized labor was founded on. It's time to go back to the drawing board. It's time to get back to the basics. This is what needs to be presented to the membership in the education process. If we, as a membership, don't soon return to the fundamental values of unionism, we we all collectively suffer the consequences.

 

[ograc]

I also agree about the scope issues, but we as a group need to send a message to the negotiating table, we need to give the NC some backing. I'm talking about letting the company know we are a work safe group. What good is a fifty dollar pay out if you don't have the security of a wage and benefit package to support your family. That fifty dollar payout drives alot of people to do thing they wouldn't normally do and the management knows it, they laugh all the way to the bank when they add that money to your paycheck because they know they just got alot more out of each employee without setteling your contract.

Couldn't agree more!