August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

PPS: "spartans": What was the evening's most bothersome portion? Perhaps the following?: "This has all been good for lifetime laughs, just from some greedy fool trying to argue "logically" for magically becoming "13 or 1400 numbers" senior to himself alone, much less watching the wriggling of all who'd ever even try to support such utter insanity....Most especially whenever the term "earn" comes into play."
 
What was any/all "spartan" distress especially focused on? Perhaps: "whenever the term "earn" comes into play."?
 
Definition of EARN:  to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered
earn 1  (ûrn)tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns
1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.
2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.
 
Which portions of any universally accepted definition of EARNED should so easilly throw "you'se" pwecious widdle "spartans" for such a loop? Perhaps this?: "and especially for work done or services rendered."?...Or was it this?: "To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work."?   Or maybe even this?: "To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action."? I can certainly understand "you'se" general discomfort with the word "deserve", much less ANY phrase even slightly addressing "for the performance of service"....
 
"spartans" minus votes bore me, as do "you'se" mighty "spartans" yourselves.  Wager's always open...and it's been a good number of years since I was at all able to truly suffer fools gladly. Anyone wishing to go all "This is sparta!" need only PM for arrangements and details. "you'se" do contain within your group some actual Pilots, none of which apparently post here, but are welcome. Those actual Pilots would likely have equal fun with this. "Beechcraft Bunnies" need not apply.

 

[EastUS1]

"Anyone wishing to go all "This is sparta!"...Nevermind. What was I thinking? What only laughably passes for a "pilot", but is none-the-less a mighty "spartan" rep of yours; cactusboy53, already covered that: "This is sparta!....I'll let the courts do my talking for me!"
 
Thanks for all the laughs over time, mighty "spartans".

 

[Piedmont1984]

The more interesting question is what status will USAPA enjoy after APA becomes our CBA and the appeal process to repair the activist judge's flawed ruling is in full swing to the 9th Circuit, or is about to begin. The timeline is murky here but very important it seems to me. How does USAPA officially carry on the defense against the Addington plaintiffs after single carrier status is determined? Does anyone expect the APA to either support or fund this defense? Has USAPA already set aside monies for this specific purpose with the understanding that It will continue to enjoy the legal authority to decide how and when to spend these funds at it"s own discretion after it ceases to be the CBA? Or, as in the case of AOL, will east pilots be tasked with making direct cash contributions in order to fund a legal defense with an uncertain sunset.

We'll call it AOX (Army of Xerxes) and Instead of rings made of semi precious medals, I want a modest line of fishing boats depending on the level of contribution.

'84

 

[electricjet98]

The more interesting question is what status will USAPA enjoy after APA becomes our CBA and the appeal process to repair the activist judge's flawed ruling is in full swing to the 9th Circuit, or is about to begin. The timeline is murky here but very important it seems to me. How does USAPA officially carry on the defense against the Addington plaintiffs after single carrier status is determined? Does anyone expect the APA to either support or fund this defense? Has USAPA already set aside monies for this specific purpose with the understanding that It will continue to enjoy the legal authority to decide how and when to spend these funds at it"s own discretion after it ceases to be the CBA? Or, as in the case of AOL, will east pilots be tasked with making direct cash contributions in order to fund a legal defense with an uncertain sunset.

We'll call it AOX (Army of Xerxes) and Instead of rings made of semi precious medals, I want a modest line of fishing boats depending on the level of contribution.

'84

Not assigning blame to either side, the irony is that if this seniority issue had never risen many of us would be find that we have much in common and agree on most subjects.

 

[electricjet98]

Not assigning blame to either side, the irony is that if this seniority issue had never risen many of us would be find that we have much in common and agree on most subjects.

Anyone else having the quote function not working properly? It doesn't properly box or shade the quoted portion.

 

[snapthis]

The more interesting question is what status will USAPA enjoy after APA becomes our CBA and the appeal process to repair the activist judge's flawed ruling is in full swing to the 9th Circuit, or is about to begin. The timeline is murky here but very important it seems to me. How does USAPA officially carry on the defense against the Addington plaintiffs after single carrier status is determined? Does anyone expect the APA to either support or fund this defense? Has USAPA already set aside monies for this specific purpose with the understanding that It will continue to enjoy the legal authority to decide how and when to spend these funds at it"s own discretion after it ceases to be the CBA? Or, as in the case of AOL, will east pilots be tasked with making direct cash contributions in order to fund a legal defense with an uncertain sunset.

We'll call it AOX (Army of Xerxes) and Instead of rings made of semi precious medals, I want a modest line of fishing boats depending on the level of contribution.

'84

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That dog won't hunt '84.

Why would the APA risk a lawsuit after being put on notice?

You better dress warm because I am forecasting a freeze on assets.

A better plan would be to start raising money by setting up a few pecan stands in Mecklenburg County.

 

[Res Judicata]

So I see the BPR, aka the Idiot Conferacy, is thinking about using dues money to, YET AGAIN, sue in Federal court because they don't like what they heard from yet ANOTHER arbitrator. Is Kasher senile? Is he a "desert" arbitrator? What's the one common denominator in the plethora of your fake scab unions problems? East scabs. That's what.

I never get bored of watching this bumbling fumbling group of ham handed USCABA monkeys try and Fk that football. HA!!! A more through embarrassment to Aviation, one will not find.

 

[EastUS1]

"A more through embarrassment to Aviation, one will not find."

 
Yeah...Just keep telling "you'se" self what a fine and mighty "spartan"/"knight" (or whatever's currently popular in Fantasyland) you are, or can at least imagine yourself to be kid. That material's always good for a laugh.
 
Res; you never even feebly attempted any response to the question of "How does anyone ever, umm..."earn"..."around 13 or 1400 numbers senior to" himself.."?
 
A more "through" indictment of "rather exclusive private educational institutions" couldn't be found anywhere.

 

[end_of_alpa]

So I see the BPR, aka the Idiot Conferacy, is thinking about using dues money to, YET AGAIN, sue in Federal court because they don't like what they heard from yet ANOTHER arbitrator. Is Kasher senile? Is he a "desert" arbitrator? What's the one common denominator in the plethora of your fake scab unions problems? East scabs. That's what.

I never get bored of watching this bumbling fumbling group of ham handed USCABA monkeys try and Fk that football. HA!!! A more through embarrassment to Aviation, one will not find.

Hey Snap...twin just got out of the asylum again. Here, I'll communicate in West terms.Your fking scab fking brother is fking scabbing your fking AOL party line. Were you guys separated at birth or are you still conjoined?This is what West pilots sound like in PHX.

 

[EastUS1]

"Anyone else having the quote function not working properly? It doesn't properly box or shade the quoted portion."

 
That's happening for me as well. I'm currently logged on with a recently updated version of Firefox, if the browser has any effect on it. I imagine it's strictly a site issue though.
 
A different browser produced the same results. It's the site.

 

[traderjake]

The APA could then just order the list how they want. They could just staple the entire US Airways pilots under theirs.

The USAPA could then just order the list how they want. They could just staple the MAJORITY of AWA pilots under theirs.

That's why we have laws and arbitration.

 

[luvthe9]

The USAPA could then just order the list how they want. They could just staple the MAJORITY of AWA pilots under theirs.

That's why we have laws and arbitration.

So profound!  "The USAPA" huh?

 

[Pi brat]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That dog won't hunt '84.

Why would the APA risk a lawsuit after being put on notice?

You better dress warm because I am forecasting a freeze on assets.

A better plan would be to start raising money by setting up a few pecan stands in Mecklenburg County.

 
 
Explain to me why the APA would be sued at all if USAPA is left to define, negotiate and arbitrate the SLI? Their hands would be clean. The APA became the CBA of the TWA pilots and did not inherit their DFR, ALPA kept it.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Explain to me why the APA would be sued at all if USAPA is left to define, negotiate and arbitrate the SLI? Their hands would be clean. The APA became the CBA of the TWA pilots and did not inherit their DFR, ALPA kept it.

Seems logical. A couple of questions though.

1. Was the TWA merger before or after the M/B amendment?
2. ALPA still existed as a national union long after the APA attained single carrier status. What's to prevent USAPA from violating their DFR or any other law, duty or obligation and then terminating their existence and liquidating assets before a represented pilot has a chance to make a claim against them and have relief granted in federal court?
3. Does the NMB or M/B statutes governing bargaining agents during mergers have a specifically-written provision for how a decertified bargaining agent is to conduct its representational duties when another bargaining agent has exclusive rights to represent, or when the decertified bargaining agent has no membership of any kind to keep it active and solvent?
4. Does the Company, the APA or the pilots themselves send money to USAPA once they are no longer able to collect dues, should USAPA have insufficient funds to cover their duties and obligations?

Just asking so that I can understand what roles and limits USAPA has on them from a federal statute perspective when it comes to the M/B provision as a decertified bargaining agent.

 

[Pi brat]

Seems logical. A couple of questions though.

1. Was the TWA merger before or after the M/B amendment?
2. ALPA still existed as a national union long after the APA attained single carrier status. What's to prevent USAPA from violating their DFR or any other law, duty or obligation and then terminating their existence and liquidating assets before a represented pilot has a chance to make a claim against them and have relief granted in federal court?
3. Does the NMB or M/B statutes governing bargaining agents during mergers have a specifically-written provision for how a decertified bargaining agent is to conduct its representational duties when another bargaining agent has exclusive rights to represent, or when the decertified bargaining agent has no membership of any kind to keep it active and solvent?
4. Does the Company, the APA or the pilots themselves send money to USAPA once they are no longer able to collect dues, should USAPA have insufficient funds to cover their duties and obligations?

Just asking so that I can understand what roles and limits USAPA has on them from a federal statute perspective when it comes to the M/B provision as a decertified bargaining agent.

My question really was a question. I don't have the answers to yours, I can go look at M/B, but every time I have I've found it to be short on answers.
It seems that the reason M/B came about was so the bigger group couldn't beat up on the smaller, so if the bigger group still takes over, how much protection is there? We have seen how little the threat of DFR affects behavior and how hard one is to win.