August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

All wrong.

The Company spells out .....

Hmm...and here I'd thought we were concerned with what the courts, not the company, will have to say.

"WHY USTUPID" does provide an erudite and most compelling argument though, as does "All wrong."

 

[Reed Richards]

One more time, never answered here: If some of the PHX pilots under a new assigned bargaining agent want to sue, being unhappy with their treatment or representation in the M/B process....Who do they sue for a DFR? Remember, when a vote takes place for a new bargaining agent with the NMB, almost everyone votes in the process, anyone and everyone with barely even an interest in the outcome. The current PHX reps were only elected by MIGS. RR

 

[Reed Richards]

The Company spells out exactly WHY USTUPID is incapable of fairly representing their "West Union Brothers" and is begging the court to intervene. Which is BS as the TA, the governing document is crystal clear.

NMB elections determine who is allowed to represent a union group. DFR lawsuits may determine if proper representation occurred. Note the past tense. Representational ability is NOT decided beforehand, outside the election process. There is no "Company" in the equation. RR

 

[Res Judicata]

NMB elections determine who is allowed to represent a union group. DFR lawsuits may determine if proper representation occurred. Note the past tense. Representational ability is NOT decided beforehand, outside the election process. There is no "Company" in the equation. RR

When referencing the companies court filings there sure as hell is a company. You're all scared to death that your scab union is going to lose control of the SLI outcome. Here's a hint...YOU WERE NEVER IN CONTROL IN THE FIRST PLACE...

If the West/AOL get independent representation at a MB integration, you'd better ready the CIRP team. They're going after far more than the nic to compensate for the egregious illegal behavior of the fake union over the last 5 years.

You should be VERY worried of a 3 way integration.

 

[Piedmont1984]

When referencing the companies court filings there sure as hell is a company. You're all scared to death that your scab union is going to lose control of the SLI outcome. Here's a hint...YOU WERE NEVER IN CONTROL IN THE FIRST PLACE...

If the West/AOL get independent representation at a MB integration, you'd better ready the CIRP team. They're going after far more than the nic to compensate for the egregious illegal behavior of the fake union over the last 5 years.

You should be VERY worried of a 3 way integration.

You're confusing a 3 way with a DFR. The subject of damages will not even arise in a 3 way. By entering into a 3 way the DFR goes away. You once again become your own independent and autonomous agency representing your separate interests. And if a sub group in PHX doesn't like the results they would need to sue AOL.

USAPA is correct in trying to avoid a DFR. That is because 'proper representation' has already been deemed lacking in the previous DFR.

Either way, if USAPA has the courage of its convictions, then a legal judgement day should be embraced, not avoided or delayed in perpetuity. A DFR is a loser. A 3 way has quantifiable and acceptable risk.

'84

 

[Claxon]

A declaratory judgment in [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]USAPA[/background][/background]'s[/background] favor will be issued by the Ninth Circuit Court soon. A [background=Red][background=Red]DFR[/background][/background] 3 suit by the west will be decided a few years from now. After the favorable Ninth decision, [background=Red][background=Red]APA[/background][/background] and [background=Red][background=Red]USAPA[/background][/background] will agree on seniority with fences.

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
US Airways, Inc.,
Plaintiff,
vs.
Don [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red][background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]Addington[/background][/background][/background][/background][/background][/background], [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]et[/background][/background][/background] [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]al[/background][/background][/background].,
Defendants.
))))))))))
No. [background=Red]CV-[/background]10-01570[background=Red]-PHX[background=Red]-ROS[/background][/background]
AMENDED JUDGMENT
(to add description of class)

Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012.

Judge Silver



UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
US AIRWAYS, INC.,
Plaintiff - Appellant,
v.
DON [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red][background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]ADDINGTON[/background][/background][/background][/background][/background][/background]; [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]et[/background][/background][/background] [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]al[/background][/background][/background].,
Defendants - [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]Appellees[/background][/background][/background].
No. 13-15000
D.C. No. 2:10-[background=Red]cv-[/background]01570[background=Red]-ROS[/background]
District of Arizona,
Phoenix
ORDER
The previous panel has retained jurisdiction of this appeal. Oral argument, if
any, will be set in due course.
FOR THE COURT:
MOLLY C. [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]DWYER[/background][/background][/background]
CLERK OF COURT
By: Allison [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]Fung[/background][/background][/background]
Deputy Clerk
FILED
OCT 07 2013
MOLLY C. [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]DWYER[/background][/background][/background], CLERK
U.S. COURT OF APPEALS

 

[Res Judicata]

You're confusing a 3 way with a DFR. The subject of damages will not even arise in a 3 way. By entering into a 3 way the DFR goes away. You once again become your own independent and autonomous agency representing your separate interests. And if a sub group in PHX doesn't like the results they would need to sue AOL.

USAPA is correct in trying to avoid a DFR. That is because 'proper representation' has already been deemed lacking in the previous DFR.

Either way, if USAPA has the courage of its convictions, then a legal judgement day should be embraced, not avoided or delayed in perpetuity. A DFR is a loser. A 3 way has quantifiable and acceptable risk.

'84

I'm not talking DFR, I'm talking about presenting the panel the nic, minus the top protected guys, minus all the advancement enjoyed as a direct result of the illegal hijacking. I'm talking about a defacto bump and flush+punitive damages awarded baked into the final result. What's stopping any arbitration panel from accepting the nic, sliding every single East pilot 20% further down that list then merging APA?

I can assure you, the un modified nic award will look like a garden paradise compared to what the West is going to present to the arbitration panel. There's a mountain of evidence of DFR, illegal behavior, discrimination, and hostile actions against the minority group. All of that is coming out and nothing the fake scab union does will stop it.

Perhaps THIS is the reason they're fighting a 3 way so hard? What are they so OBVIOUSLY afraid of? Gee, I wonder...

 

[Reed Richards]

USAPA will fight and continue to fight any "sect" within its ranks that proposes seniority integrations by methods other than that as stated in its CBL, ratified by a majority of US Airways pilots. Read all you want into that fact. If you cannot "get the cards" you cannot represent any pilots already represented by USAPA. So simple a cave man could understand it. RR

 

[traderjake]

If you can admit you hate unions then we're good.

I admit I hate what our union has done.

Arbiters have said 5 time in a row that for pilots LOS is not seniority.

That's the bottom line no matter how you feel about it.

 

[snapthis]

USAPA will fight and continue to fight any "sect" within its ranks that proposes seniority integrations by methods other than that as stated in its CBL, ratified by a majority of US Airways pilots. Read all you want into that fact. If you cannot "get the cards" you cannot represent any pilots already represented by USAPA. So simple a cave man could understand it. RR

Ratified by who?

This cave man says, "how's that DOH quest going for y'all?"

We'll rattle the cage until we get rid of your Onion. It's smelling up the place and needs to be thrown out with the the garbage.

 

[A320 Driver]

I'm not talking DFR, I'm talking about presenting the panel the nic, minus the top protected guys, minus all the advancement enjoyed as a direct result of the illegal hijacking. I'm talking about a defacto bump and flush+punitive damages awarded baked into the final result. What's stopping any arbitration panel from accepting the nic, sliding every single East pilot 20% further down that list then merging APA?

I can assure you, the un modified nic award will look like a garden paradise compared to what the West is going to present to the arbitration panel. There's a mountain of evidence of DFR, illegal behavior, discrimination, and hostile actions against the minority group. All of that is coming out and nothing the fake scab union does will stop it.

Perhaps THIS is the reason they're fighting a 3 way so hard? What are they so OBVIOUSLY afraid of? Gee, I wonder...

Quite a fantasy. If you don't stop that, you'll go blind...

 

[Beancounter]

USAPA will fight and continue to fight any "sect" within its ranks that proposes seniority integrations by methods other than that as stated in its CBL, ratified by a majority of US Airways pilots. Read all you want into that fact. If you cannot "get the cards" you cannot represent any pilots already represented by USAPA. So simple a cave man could understand it. RR

There aren’t a lot of things in this mess I can guarantee 100%, that is except for one thing. Barring a merger or court intervention, if you keep pursuing DOH you’ll never see a new contract*.

Anyone that thought there was any chance of DOH in our arbitration is probably on the short list for the Darwin award. Nicolau or not, no arbitrator would have ever decided DOH. Only a biased east pilot could come up with that as an end result. You really think you can have the majority (east pilots) act as an arbitrator and decide what the seniority list should look like? Even you average five year can grasp how wrong that is. Keep the two groups separate as long as you can to get an artificial DOH list, but don’t ever expect a new contract. This is by no means meant as a threat, it’s just the way it is. I don’t want you guys to be the lowest paid in the industry any more than I want myself to be the second lowest paid in the industry...... well, maybe a little more

Bean

P.S. Don’t worry, I’m not back again for good, just stopped by to say, “Hi.”

*Unsatisfaction guaranteed or your money back. Oh wait, you can’t get the $900 million back in lost wages, never mind.

 

[nevergiveup]

I admit I hate what our union has done.

Arbiters have said 5 time in a row that for pilots LOS is not seniority.

That's the bottom line no matter how you feel about it.

It was at AWA!

 

[CallawayGolf]

It was at AWA!

Which separate groups of pilots were merged to become AWA prior to 9/27/2005 and when did they select DOH/LOS as the Seniority List INTEGRATION methodology?

How did it works at AAA prior to NIC? Were there any east pilots on furlough who were senior to active mainline pilots? Were they furloughed based on their date of hire or based on their seniority (or juniority if you prefer) status? Any possibility of an active pilot with a very similar or identical DOH as someone who was furloughed and thus junior?

 

[traderjake]

It was at AWA!

No it's not, ask the Empire and Shuttle pilots.