August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

This statement by Judge Silver confounds me. That statements tells west pilots not to vote for the MOU thinking that it will implement the Nic. That statement does support USAPA's position that the west pilots voted for the MOU knowing it didn't include the Nic.

It's a confusing statement(on purpose, I believe), did it confuse her?

It's confusing but I think it might be better read [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]and [/background][background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]no West Pilot should vote for the MOU just because they believe the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award[/background]

 

[Pi brat]

It's confusing but I think it might be better read [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]and [/background][background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]no West Pilot should vote for the MOU just because they believe the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award[/background]

Well, maybe if that is what was written, but it wasn't. It says don't vote for the MOU thinking it will implement the Nic. It didn't say that and the west voted for it anyway, warts and all and we know Nicolau is job one for west pilots. They voted for a document that didn't include it. But, you've agreed with me on this DFR before.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Well, maybe if that is what was written, but it wasn't. It says don't vote for the MOU thinking it will implement the Nic. It didn't say that and the west voted for it anyway, warts and all and we know Nicolau is job one for west pilots. They voted for a document that didn't include it. But, you've agreed with me on this DFR before.

Indeed I have, but Silver keeps marching on nevertheless.

 

[traderjake]

Let's remind them. I will do the honors today:

http://web.mit.edu/a...T PERSONNEL.htm

Says the Captain who makes less than the other A330 F/Os over the North Atlantic.

Just thought I'd remind you.

 

[Pi brat]

Indeed I have, but Silver keeps marching on nevertheless.

Indeed and I certainly won't bet on how she will rule.

 

[Phoenix]

Why is that a tough day? Sounds like good news to me. Now those three can finish the job they failed to do last time, unless they continue to deny that ripeness exists in which case they (well not Bybee) will still have no opinion to offer on the merits of the case. The Company just wants the matter resolved so they can return to negotiations on a JCBA with S22 no longer a debated legal issue. They may think one position is more fair than another on a personal level, but as Managers they will accept whatever the courts decide about the list USAPA accepts/presents. Their neutrality dictates that they only want a legally derived SLI so they don't get sued or pushed into a self-help scenario. As far as AOL goes, well Tashima and Graber were not opposed to the Addington claims, they just thought (very, very incorrectly as Bybee pointed out in his dissenting opinion) that USAPA would heed their warnings and pursue a course of action that wouldn't bring them back to court on DFR charges. Looks like Bybee will have the last laugh on that point within that little threesome.

Bybee the last laugh.

Since you propounded no threshold or standard of proof for a last laugh, and you provided no evidence, that is the most recent example of an "implicit assumption" to date... A true tribute to Bybee, indeed. My congratulations.

 

[Black Swan]

"We do not require , or even permit, union members to bring a suit against their union simply because the union had announced its future intention to break its duty."

This is what tripped up your heart doctor back in 2010. We won't see a final product for at least 2 years. The west has never understood they can't get inside of a labor unions bargaining process. Wake and Bybee are clueless judges when dealing with the union bargaining process. The MOU is not a JCBA.

Hate

Hate, you are correct. For some reason Harper et al continue to think they can sue before the outcome. Again, can you sue another driver for damage to you and your car before an accident ever takes place? Try it some time.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

An Open Letter to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi from the 10,000 Pilots of American Airlines​

Dear Ms. Bondi,​

In joining the Justice Department lawsuit to block the American Airlines-US Airways merger, you claim that “this merger would be anti-competitive and harmful to consumers” and that “American and US Airways compete directly on thousands of heavily traveled nonstop and connecting routes.”Actually, the two airlines compete directly on only 12 nonstop routes. Their route networks​

are highly complementary with very little overlap — much more so than in any other recent airline merger. Southwest and AirTran, for example, served many of the same markets and overlapped on more routes than American and US Airways now do. Yet neither you nor the Justice Department intervened to stop that merger. Officials at Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport believe that the American Airlines-US Airways merger would work to their advantage by giving the airport a long-sought link to American’s Dallas-Fort Worth hub.​

Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Giminez also favors the merger, noting that, with its Miami hub, “American Airlines is a vitally important part of our work force.” Miami International Airport’s director has voiced concerns that its bond ratings will suffer if the merger is blocked.​

American Airlines has struggled in recent years in the face of competition with two much larger carriers — Delta-Northwest and United-Continental — whose mergers were blessed by the Justice Department. The merger with US Airways would enable American Airlines to exit Chapter 11 restructuring​

on a level playing field with United and Delta. A reinvigorated American Airlines would then offer business and international travelers a viable alternative to those carriers, providing an important competitive counterbalance.​

If American Airlines and US Airways are not permitted to merge, American Airlines could be forced to shed less profitable routes, resulting in the potential service cuts you cite as justificatio for opposing the merger.​

Maybe you should ask Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott about why he withdrew Texas from the Justice Department lawsuit after initially supporting it. In announcing Texas’ withdrawal, Attorney General Abbott stated that the new American Airlines “will preserve competition in the marketplace, maintain important routes in Texas and protect jobs.”​

For the sake of American Airlines, its thousands of Florida-based workers and the economic well-being of the Sunshine State, we hope you’ll likewise reconsider your position.​

That letter made me LMFAO, 40million retirees in FL saying yea, let my ticket prices go up, my choice in air travel diminish because 10,000 AMR pilots need a little help, You know the FL AG probably said hey 4O million supporters(retirees that vote) or 10,000 airline pilots! How ignorant!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hate, you are correct. For some reason Harper et al continue to think they can sue before the outcome. Again, can you sue another driver for damage to you and your car before an accident ever takes place? Try it some time.

Well CACTUSBOY did remind us their on a strict timeline, and did he remind us in the WRIT, that IKUTA was a partner in the same lawfirm as the companies attorney, man this is a fun to watch!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Hate, you are correct. For some reason Harper et al continue to think they can sue before the outcome. Again, can you sue another driver for damage to you and your car before an accident ever takes place? Try it some time.

What's so difficult for your to comprehend? Bybee made a powerful and cogent argument in dissenting from the other two justices that dismissing the DFR case on ripeness grounds would be a failure of the court to properly resolve a dispute between the two parties. Furthermore he said it was quite clear that USAPA had no intention, and had clearly stated as much, of abiding by their DFR responsibilities regarding the NIC and that sending them away with a warning would simply delay the justice that was ultimately due to the west pilots per federal law. He was spot on by all accounts and on all points. The parties are still in a state of unresolved dispute and there have been at least two (more like four federal cases: PHX-DJ, NC-Status Quo, NY-Status Quo, PHX-MOU/DFR II) clogging up the courts because the parties cannot come to an out-of-court settlement of this SLI dispute. USAPA has heeded no warnings from Wake, Bybee, Tashima, Graber, or Silver related to their DFR and the NIC. So now in the aftermath of all that Bybee can remind the other two justices that his dissenting opinion was spot on and that they should now do what they failed to do last time, namely evaluate the Company's DJ as a case ripe for adjudication and determine on the merits that Silver can resolve the unanswered DFR question definitively on Count 1 or on Count 2 with no caveats attached like last time.

History has proven Bybee to be right on those points. Perhaps he's not the kind to laugh or gloat, but he certainly wasn't wrong about USAPA not abiding by the NIC or the fact that the courts would ultimately have to decide if their stated intentions were a DFR or not.

 

[Claxon]

That letter made me LMFAO, 40million retirees in FL saying yea, let my ticket prices go up, my choice in air travel diminish because 10,000 AMR pilots need a little help, You know the FL AG probably said hey 4O million supporters(retirees that vote) or 10,000 airline pilots! How ignorant!

Great post. The AMR pilots have their choice, a turd and dui ceo named doug or ceo of amr horton who the BK judge told him no 20 million. It took quite a lot of courage (sarcasm) for the american pilots to go for the money.

If US Airways and the creditors did not step in, the AMR pilots would not have their furlough clause, their pay and benefits would have been cut and they think they still have a chance at 100,000 dollars equity per pilot.

US Airways pilots whould love to see doug, horton, apa pilots and the creditors get it shoveved up their greedy large pores.

All will complain during the holidays and pass blame about the poor operation.

 

[Claxon]

Hey doug, what happened to the operation during the holidays? Did your stradegy of lowest paid employees work? Did not the same thing happen in PHL 10 years ago?

 

[Claxon]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6754453/ns/business-us_business/t/us-airways-comair-struggleto-recover-holiday-woes/

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Great post. The AMR pilots have their choice, a turd and dui ceo named doug or ceo of amr horton who the BK judge told him no 20 million. It took quite a lot of courage (sarcasm) for the american pilots to go for the money.

If US Airways and the creditors did not step in, the AMR pilots would not have their furlough clause, their pay and benefits would have been cut and they think they still have a chance at 100,000 dollars equity per pilot.

US Airways pilots whould love to see doug, horton, apa pilots and the creditors get it shoveved up their greedy large pores.

All will complain during the holidays and pass blame about the poor operation.

What is funny about the letter is the AMR PILOTS are to blinded to see retirees are not stupid, they see the MEM, PIT, and all the other hub shutdowns and airfare rises, to know what is about to happen, good for the airline employee is very bad for the retiree, and yes those people vote!

 

[im back..!!]

That letter made me LMFAO, 40million retirees in FL saying yea, let my ticket prices go up, my choice in air travel diminish because 10,000 AMR pilots need a little help, You know the FL AG probably said hey 4O million supporters(retirees that vote) or 10,000 airline pilots! How ignorant!

If the merger dosent go thru, delta will own florida. Then the ticket prices will see no end to the rise. Not allowing the merger will garner 2 airlines and southwest, the rest will be inconsequential...

To dissallow would in my opinion be "Ignorant"..