August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Those videos make my case every day. Grist for the mill so to speak.
Your group has left its' video graphic prints in places too numerous to mention.
Who knows where the next one will surface?

That's all fine and dandy but I think I would prepare for 10/22. That's the case which needs to be made. Your side already looks unprepared.

"By now, most know that the Addington III trial date was moved to October 22 to meet the needs of the court (Doc 174). There have also been a number of legal filings in recent weeks, which are discussed in detail below. Of most importance is Judge Silver’s Order on September 18, 2013, (Doc 194), which resolved the following issues pending before the Court: (1) class certification; (2) the Company’s Motion to Intervene; (3) two motions to quash subpoenas issued to Leonidas relating to USAPA’s request to obtain Leonidas’ financial records; and (4) USAPA’s Motion for Reconsideration.

Class Certification

In a prior order (Doc 122), “the Court instructed USAPA that if it planned on opposing certification in this case, it should present ‘substantially better arguments’ than what it presented in the past.” In Judge Silver’s words, “Unfortunately, USAPA did not listen.” (Doc 194).

As many of you are aware, USAPA has advanced the argument in this litigation that the West Pilots waived their right to pursue the Nicolau award because 98% of West Pilots voted in favor of the MOU. This was one of the arguments that USAPA advanced in opposing class certification. Again, in Judge Silver’s own words: “This argument cannot be taken seriously.” (Doc 194) (emphasis added). With respect to this argument, Judge Silver stated:

During the vote on the MOU, USAPA repeatedly assured all of its members that the vote would have no bearing on adoption of the Nicolau Award. In USAPA’s own words, “no East pilot should vote against the MOU because they fear that ratifying the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award, and no West Pilot should vote for the MOU because they believe the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award.” (Doc 136). In light of this and similar statements during the ratification vote, USAPA’s current position that the vote was a clear statement by the majority of the West Pilots that they are no longer interested in pursuing the Nicolau Award is very close to frivolous. (emphasis added).

In her order, Judge Silver certified the class of West Pilots and appointed Marty, Andy and Jennifer as class counsel. Judge Silver also found that notice was not required given the circumstances of this case and that our attorneys had been certified twice before."

In the words of Judge Silver.....

“Unfortunately, USAPA did not listen.” (Doc 194).

“This argument cannot be taken seriously.” (Doc 194) (emphasis added).

"USAPA’s current position that the vote was a clear statement by the majority of the West Pilots that they are no longer interested in pursuing the Nicolau Award is very close to frivolous. "(emphasis added).

Expect this trend to continue on 10/22....

 

[Hate2fly]

Snap,

Another tough day yesterday for the company and the army. The previous panel has retained jurisdiction of the DJ. Ouch! Tashima, Graber and Bybee. Should be fun watching Silver's creative courtroom on the 22nd.

Hate

 

[CallawayGolf]

Snap,

Another tough day yesterday for the company and the army. The previous panel has retained jurisdiction of the DJ. Ouch! Tashima, Graber and Bybee. Should be fun watching Silver's creative courtroom on the 22nd.

Hate

Why is that a tough day? Sounds like good news to me. Now those three can finish the job they failed to do last time, unless they continue to deny that ripeness exists in which case they (well not Bybee) will still have no opinion to offer on the merits of the case. The Company just wants the matter resolved so they can return to negotiations on a JCBA with S22 no longer a debated legal issue. They may think one position is more fair than another on a personal level, but as Managers they will accept whatever the courts decide about the list USAPA accepts/presents. Their neutrality dictates that they only want a legally derived SLI so they don't get sued or pushed into a self-help scenario. As far as AOL goes, well Tashima and Graber were not opposed to the Addington claims, they just thought (very, very incorrectly as Bybee pointed out in his dissenting opinion) that USAPA would heed their warnings and pursue a course of action that wouldn't bring them back to court on DFR charges. Looks like Bybee will have the last laugh on that point within that little threesome.

 

[nycbusdriver]

SNAPTHIS seems to have poor recall of his substandard F/O compensation. They all do.

Let's remind them. I will do the honors today:

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2010%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/Pilots/Average%20Annual%20Wages%20and%20Salaries%20-%20PILOT%20AND%20CO-PILOT%20PERSONNEL.htm

 

[snapthis]

Snap,

Another tough day yesterday for the company and the army. The previous panel has retained jurisdiction of the DJ. Ouch! Tashima, Graber and Bybee. Should be fun watching Silver's creative courtroom on the 22nd.

Hate

I'm not worried about the 9th. They said bring it back when it's ripe. That's not a problem.

What are you going to do when you have no USAPA? You better start work on the LLC.

I'd put EastUS in charge of fundraising. He can bake cookies or set up a margarita stand.

Keep an eye on Claxon so he does not trademark your idea.

Good luck.

 

[EastUS1]

Give me your first and last name, your ssn ,,,

Suffering some delusions of grandeur issues in addition to the normal adolescent angst so typically displayed? No matter. Didn't you fine and noble, "integrity"-ridden "spartans" already steal those from all the east pilots long ago? You know, so you could get our addresses and send out your glossy brochure BS, claiming of course, that you didn't even know the ssn's were contained in the illicitly obtained files? Sigh! How soon some forget. If your people truly didn't know they had that info, then they're hopless morons who shouldn't be trusted with even sharp objects of any kind. If, as is more reasonably suspected; the ssn's were known to be contained, and yet the files were still kept, then a whole new level of despicable comes into play. In any case...I wouldn't trust your bunch with so much as an unguarded tip left on a lunch counter, without the wait staff being immediately present to take it.

 

[Hate2fly]

"We do not require , or even permit, union members to bring a suit against their union simply because the union had announced its future intention to break its duty."

This is what tripped up your heart doctor back in 2010. We won't see a final product for at least 2 years. The west has never understood they can't get inside of a labor unions bargaining process. Wake and Bybee are clueless judges when dealing with the union bargaining process. The MOU is not a JCBA.

Hate

 

[traderjake]

SNAPTHIS seems to have poor recall of his substandard F/O compensation.

Claxon is keenly aware of things substandard.

 

[snapthis]

"We do not require , or even permit, union members to bring a suit against their union simply because the union had announced its future intention to break its duty."

Hate

The LMRDA is very clear on this issue, otherwise you would not be finding yourselves in court over and over again.

Union Member's Bill of Rights
Free Speech and Due Process
The Union Member’s Bill of Rights, Title 1 of the LMRDA, guarantees the following democratic rights to all union members:
Equal rights and privileges to nominate candidates, to vote in elections or referendums, and to attend and participate in union meetings and vote on the business of the meeting, subject to reasonable rules in the union constitution and/or bylaws;
Freedom of speech and assembly, including the right to:

• criticize union officials;
• express any viewpoint at union meetings (subject to reasonable rules of conduct);
• distribute literature outside the union hall or inside the hall if members cannot reasonably be reached from outside;
• hold separate meetings without interference from union officials;

The right to secret ballot vote on rates of dues, initiation fees, and assessments;


The right to sue the union, without reprisal......

 

[EastUS1]

I'd put EastUS in charge of fundraising. He can bake cookies or set up a margarita stand.

Well, I'd be willing to raise funds otherwise, but I can't seem to find any mighty "spartans" that'll even accept a simple and purely recreational flying wager. You could of course, be the first to do so.....?

 

[Hate2fly]

Snap,

It's your money! Spend it as you see fit.

Hate

 

[CallawayGolf]

"We do not require , or even permit, union members to bring a suit against their union simply because the union had announced its future intention to break its duty."

This is what tripped up your heart doctor back in 2010. We won't see a final product for at least 2 years. The west has never understood they can't get inside of a labor unions bargaining process. Wake and Bybee are clueless judges when dealing with the union bargaining process. The MOU is not a JCBA.

Hate

A Declaratory Judgement lawsuit has a very different standard of ripeness as Silver already pointed out. Besides, the Company is not considered "union members".

 

[Claxon]

The LMRDA is very clear on this issue, otherwise you would not be finding yourselves in court over and over again.

[font="Trebuchet MS][size="5"]Union Member's Bill of Rights[/size][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS]Free Speech and Due Process
The Union Member’s Bill of Rights, Title 1 of the LMRDA, guarantees the following democratic rights to all union members:[/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS]Equal rights and privileges to nominate candidates, to vote in elections or referendums, and to attend and participate in union meetings and vote on the business of the meeting, subject to reasonable rules in the union constitution and/or bylaws;[/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS]Freedom of speech and assembly, including the right to: [/font]

• [font="Trebuchet MS]criticize union officials;[/font]
• [font="Trebuchet MS]express any viewpoint at union meetings (subject to reasonable rules of conduct); [/font]
• [font="Trebuchet MS]distribute literature outside the union hall or inside the hall if members cannot reasonably be reached from outside;[/font]
• [font="Trebuchet MS]hold separate meetings without interference from union officials;[/font]

[font="Trebuchet MS]The right to secret ballot vote on rates of dues, initiation fees, and assessments;[/font]


[font="Trebuchet MS]The right to sue the union, without reprisal......[/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS] [/font]

The western contingent has made a living for Marty and the heart doctor. A fine one at that. The west proclivity for legal action is unrivaled. They would sue anyone who came between them and their career land grab. They would sue any and all.
It is interesting watching Her Honor walk the edge of dark and deep legal hole, attempting to curry favor with the home team. The drug runners of america west inexplicably received favored son status with the Phoenix Federal Court.
Her Honor is attempting to flush a settlement through a discreet hint that has no teeth.
She will come into line when she has to make the decision to emulate Wake and suffer his embarrassment, or follow the correct legal path and avoid painful excoriation at the hands of Ninth legal clerks.

 

[Claxon]

"We do not require , or even permit, union members to bring a suit against their union simply because the union had announced its future intention to break its duty."

This is what tripped up your heart doctor back in 2010. We won't see a final product for at least 2 years. The west has never understood they can't get inside of a labor unions bargaining process. Wake and Bybee are clueless judges when dealing with the union bargaining process. The MOU is not a JCBA.

Hate

The west failure to understand labor and unions is the constant sand in the gears of Leonidas.

 

[Pi brat]

During the vote on the MOU, USAPA repeatedly assured all of its members that the vote would have no bearing on adoption of the Nicolau Award. In USAPA’s own words, “no East pilot should vote against the MOU because they fear that ratifying the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award, and no West Pilot should vote for the MOU because they believe the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award.” (Doc 136). In light of this and similar statements during the ratification vote, USAPA’s current position that the vote was a clear statement by the majority of the West Pilots that they are no longer interested in pursuing the Nicolau Award is very close to frivolous. (emphasis added).

This statement by Judge Silver confounds me. That statements tells west pilots not to vote for the MOU thinking that it will implement the Nic. That statement does support USAPA's position that the west pilots voted for the MOU knowing it didn't include the Nic.

It's a confusing statement(on purpose, I believe), did it confuse her?