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Attendants Asked For $116 Million
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
GIVE ME A BREAK! I didn't say you worked PART TIME...but you said that about me. Last month I spent 20 days away from home....so I got you beat. But let's not forget, I'm part time! <_< You see Bob, the reason you insulted EVERYONE is your ASSumption that we aren't working full time jobs. You should get over yourself. UP YOURS TOO!PineyBob said:
pitguy
Veteran
- Aug 21, 2002
- 1,509
- 0
PineyBob states: "Don''t look for a trip report this week I'm not doing one it's a family vacation and I'm not sharing. Have a nice life."
Bob,
When did you get married? or are you going on your "family" vacation with your parents. Last I knew you were single.
--Unless you are refering to a pretend family. Anyhow have a good trip and thanks for not posting a trip report.
Bob,
When did you get married? or are you going on your "family" vacation with your parents. Last I knew you were single.
--Unless you are refering to a pretend family. Anyhow have a good trip and thanks for not posting a trip report.
ELP_WN_Psgr
Senior
- Nov 29, 2003
- 419
- 0
I think somebody beat me to the punch, but I can't resist.
A32o Pilot: if it's "liveable" as you say, let's see you drive your A320 around for the same pay scale.
Don't hand me the nonsense about all your professional skills being worth more yada yada.
1. You say it's liveable.
2. You seem more concerned about the survival of your company than anyone I know.
3. Kindly put your money where your mouth is.
Have a nice day, and just remember....push in, the cows get bigger, pull back, the cows get smaller.
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
Bob
You told people that are on company time for 20 days and nights a month around the clock that they have a part-time job. Of course they are going to blow up! We are not attacking you personally (at least I'm not) but I'm shocked that you would post that... we thought you had an understanding of how things work. It makes all of your other posts questionable because it seems like you are working off of a complete misunderstanding of crewmember pay structure and an avaerage crewmembers schedule.
And with all due respect, a Trans States Airlines flight attendant has as much to do with a US Airways one as a monkey does with an elephant. Some airlines do have part time, or job share programs, or dont have unions and whoever's pally with the scheduler gets what they want. Some of the smaller commuter/Express or charter airlines deadhead thier employees to work or design trips out of thier hometown. You can do that when you have a small fleet, simple schedule, and small group of crewmembers to staff small planes. Every airline is completely different, and what thier F/As situations may be can vastly differ.
I hate that flight hour pay is thrown out as what we're paid. Divide time "on the clock", like normal people do and you come up with a very low hourly wage. You can take any other job in the world and do your calculation.
Should a surgeon get paid only for the time his scalpel is piercing someone's skin?
Should a grocery teller be paid only when the belt is on and they are scanning groceries?
Should a receptionist be paid only for time on the phone?
Police officers only when they are physically fighting crime?
A newscaster only while broadcasting?
A lawyer only while actually defending someone in court?
A firefighter only when fighting fires?
Of course not. That would be ludicrous. And that is not the way you are paid either, Bob. You are paid a certain amount for WHAT you do- presumably taking your time, skills, experience, and expenses into account- not for the time you are actually performing the physical act of your job description.
For a flight attendant, the actual flight is the easiest part- they dont have to patrol people as much in the air, and the idea of a flight attendant as entertainment/ waitstaff is fast becoming a thing of the past. There arent many customer service duties or tools on the aircraft anymore, which is a shame as most were happy to perform service, and even took alot of pride in it. Its worth noting that serving an intricate several course meal to many people from a tiny space earned one no more than tossing pretzels and cokes.
The pre-flight preparation, gathering paperwork, attending briefings, checking and testing all emergency equiptment, counting supplies, boarding and deplaning people and preparing the cabin (which there's alot more to than you would think- you wouldnt believe some of the regulations we have to follow and enforce, and risk personal fines for not following)- these are the times that the public doesnt see the flight attendants but that they are working and not being paid. Not to mention countless hours as victims of the hub and spoke system spent sitting for hours in airports waiting for thier next hour of paid work time.
They dont waltz on the plane before the customers, pick a random jumpseat, decide what to serve, and what magazine to read. The service or lack of it is a company issue, not a cabin crew one. The rest of the flight the F/As have to pass the time like customers do, be it reading, updating manual materials, filling out paperwork, paying bills, whatever. They have duties they have to do and whether they choose to do them at the hotel later on, on an airport sit, on inflight while keeping a watchful eye on the cabin is up to them.
I'd really like to show the public a flight attendants life. Its one of the most misunderstood and lampooned professions. There's so much more to it (in fact most of it) behind the scenes. There's also much more trainings and qualifications to it than most people know. Why the flying public and the media choose to rely on decades old "stewardess" images- the sexy lady in a campy outfit who's onboard to be a waitress/stripper/geisha is beyond me. Not to mention the career is not taken seriously, and has always been a victim of sexism and homophobia. The airlines are partly responsible for creating a position that was supposed to be enforcement one moment, servant the other. Its this bizarre old image that people work off of- "Why is that waitress reading a magazine? Why is she so bossy? Why does she care where I put my bag? Is she not going to give us a free meal- we paid $89. Wait, she makes how much? Are you kidding me? She goes on vacation for free! I'll bet she gets to stay in Kansas City for the next three days in a fancy hotel and then flies back. What, she only works 85 hours a month!!! Ridiculous!"
This is what we deal with all the time. :down:
You told people that are on company time for 20 days and nights a month around the clock that they have a part-time job. Of course they are going to blow up! We are not attacking you personally (at least I'm not) but I'm shocked that you would post that... we thought you had an understanding of how things work. It makes all of your other posts questionable because it seems like you are working off of a complete misunderstanding of crewmember pay structure and an avaerage crewmembers schedule.
And with all due respect, a Trans States Airlines flight attendant has as much to do with a US Airways one as a monkey does with an elephant. Some airlines do have part time, or job share programs, or dont have unions and whoever's pally with the scheduler gets what they want. Some of the smaller commuter/Express or charter airlines deadhead thier employees to work or design trips out of thier hometown. You can do that when you have a small fleet, simple schedule, and small group of crewmembers to staff small planes. Every airline is completely different, and what thier F/As situations may be can vastly differ.
I hate that flight hour pay is thrown out as what we're paid. Divide time "on the clock", like normal people do and you come up with a very low hourly wage. You can take any other job in the world and do your calculation.
Should a surgeon get paid only for the time his scalpel is piercing someone's skin?
Should a grocery teller be paid only when the belt is on and they are scanning groceries?
Should a receptionist be paid only for time on the phone?
Police officers only when they are physically fighting crime?
A newscaster only while broadcasting?
A lawyer only while actually defending someone in court?
A firefighter only when fighting fires?
Of course not. That would be ludicrous. And that is not the way you are paid either, Bob. You are paid a certain amount for WHAT you do- presumably taking your time, skills, experience, and expenses into account- not for the time you are actually performing the physical act of your job description.
For a flight attendant, the actual flight is the easiest part- they dont have to patrol people as much in the air, and the idea of a flight attendant as entertainment/ waitstaff is fast becoming a thing of the past. There arent many customer service duties or tools on the aircraft anymore, which is a shame as most were happy to perform service, and even took alot of pride in it. Its worth noting that serving an intricate several course meal to many people from a tiny space earned one no more than tossing pretzels and cokes.
The pre-flight preparation, gathering paperwork, attending briefings, checking and testing all emergency equiptment, counting supplies, boarding and deplaning people and preparing the cabin (which there's alot more to than you would think- you wouldnt believe some of the regulations we have to follow and enforce, and risk personal fines for not following)- these are the times that the public doesnt see the flight attendants but that they are working and not being paid. Not to mention countless hours as victims of the hub and spoke system spent sitting for hours in airports waiting for thier next hour of paid work time.
They dont waltz on the plane before the customers, pick a random jumpseat, decide what to serve, and what magazine to read. The service or lack of it is a company issue, not a cabin crew one. The rest of the flight the F/As have to pass the time like customers do, be it reading, updating manual materials, filling out paperwork, paying bills, whatever. They have duties they have to do and whether they choose to do them at the hotel later on, on an airport sit, on inflight while keeping a watchful eye on the cabin is up to them.
I'd really like to show the public a flight attendants life. Its one of the most misunderstood and lampooned professions. There's so much more to it (in fact most of it) behind the scenes. There's also much more trainings and qualifications to it than most people know. Why the flying public and the media choose to rely on decades old "stewardess" images- the sexy lady in a campy outfit who's onboard to be a waitress/stripper/geisha is beyond me. Not to mention the career is not taken seriously, and has always been a victim of sexism and homophobia. The airlines are partly responsible for creating a position that was supposed to be enforcement one moment, servant the other. Its this bizarre old image that people work off of- "Why is that waitress reading a magazine? Why is she so bossy? Why does she care where I put my bag? Is she not going to give us a free meal- we paid $89. Wait, she makes how much? Are you kidding me? She goes on vacation for free! I'll bet she gets to stay in Kansas City for the next three days in a fancy hotel and then flies back. What, she only works 85 hours a month!!! Ridiculous!"
This is what we deal with all the time. :down:
Bob, I think I lost my temper before, and for that I'm sorry. BUT, I'm also sorry that you obviously have little respect for us although you proclaim otherwise. It's not only you, it's just that you posted that "part time" thingy.
I "mystery shop" on my spare time (not a lot since we barely have any days off). Went into an apartment to report upon the agent there. This particular apartment had a program called "Hometown Heroes". It was designed for those people who made a difference on 9/11. It was designed to give them a little break on their rent, no application fee, no security deposit, etc. stuff like that. It was offered to pilots, fireman, policeman and teachers (teachers? :blink: ). I asked if it was available for flight attendants since the very first victim of 9/11 was, in fact, a murdered flight attendant. She called the company to ask, guess what, NOPE. Teachers ARE hometown heroes but flight attendants ARE NOT. Go figure. We really try to make your flights enjoyable and comfortable but we seem to get kicked to the curb every which way we turn. Think about it.
I "mystery shop" on my spare time (not a lot since we barely have any days off). Went into an apartment to report upon the agent there. This particular apartment had a program called "Hometown Heroes". It was designed for those people who made a difference on 9/11. It was designed to give them a little break on their rent, no application fee, no security deposit, etc. stuff like that. It was offered to pilots, fireman, policeman and teachers (teachers? :blink: ). I asked if it was available for flight attendants since the very first victim of 9/11 was, in fact, a murdered flight attendant. She called the company to ask, guess what, NOPE. Teachers ARE hometown heroes but flight attendants ARE NOT. Go figure. We really try to make your flights enjoyable and comfortable but we seem to get kicked to the curb every which way we turn. Think about it.
Smartest Loser
Senior
- Jun 20, 2003
- 313
- 0
MOVE HQ OUT OF CCY...I bet thats got to be worth 100 million there..!!ITRADE said:
Thats my giveback.
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
If CCY employees supposedly cant afford to love in DC, how on earth are DCA based flight attendants supposed to make it, and scarifice more for a company that has taken and taken from them and given them nothing?Smartest Loser said:MOVE HQ OUT OF CCY...I bet thats got to be worth 100 million there..!!
Thats my giveback.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
I do not know a lot about the non flight crew contracts, but I do know a lot about the pilot and flight attendant contracts.
Management wants the flight crew to have a contract similar in scope to America West, which has pay rates about 10% less than US Airways’ current pay rates.
The big difference between the America West and US Airways flight attendants is in pay caps, benefits, and retirement.
I believe the company will want to eliminate the 55-hour, 75-hour, and 85-hour options, with full benefits. The company may accept the 55-hour option with two people sharing a block of flying, with these employees part time with no benefits.
By reducing the pay rate and increasing the number of hours flown, the pilot's and flight attendant's can keep their gross pay about the same as today.
The company may permit 95-hour, 105-hour, and even an unlimited cap with changes to benefits FMLA, OJI, Sick Time, Vacation and Duty Rigs to match America West.
The intent is to reduce soft time and increase the hard time to permit an increase in aircraft utilization from 10.0 to 11.5 hours per day with the same amount of employees as today.
Furthermore, these type of changes will also occur to the pilot group and either the company or its unions agree on something similar to what I have written above or the airline will enter into bankruptcy. At that point it’s uncertain whether it will be a Chapter 11 restructuring with S.1113 motions to force labor changes or a Chapter 7 liquidation.
I continue to believe it’s in the best interests of all employee groups to cut the best deal possible and let the company live to fight another day. Then when the new agreements are ratified if they are unacceptable, then the majority of the employees will have pay and benefits continue while they look for another job, versus nothing except unemployment.
Change will occur one way or another. Either it's an America West type of contract or bankruptcy, where the pain will likely be worse.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Management wants the flight crew to have a contract similar in scope to America West, which has pay rates about 10% less than US Airways’ current pay rates.
The big difference between the America West and US Airways flight attendants is in pay caps, benefits, and retirement.
I believe the company will want to eliminate the 55-hour, 75-hour, and 85-hour options, with full benefits. The company may accept the 55-hour option with two people sharing a block of flying, with these employees part time with no benefits.
By reducing the pay rate and increasing the number of hours flown, the pilot's and flight attendant's can keep their gross pay about the same as today.
The company may permit 95-hour, 105-hour, and even an unlimited cap with changes to benefits FMLA, OJI, Sick Time, Vacation and Duty Rigs to match America West.
The intent is to reduce soft time and increase the hard time to permit an increase in aircraft utilization from 10.0 to 11.5 hours per day with the same amount of employees as today.
Furthermore, these type of changes will also occur to the pilot group and either the company or its unions agree on something similar to what I have written above or the airline will enter into bankruptcy. At that point it’s uncertain whether it will be a Chapter 11 restructuring with S.1113 motions to force labor changes or a Chapter 7 liquidation.
I continue to believe it’s in the best interests of all employee groups to cut the best deal possible and let the company live to fight another day. Then when the new agreements are ratified if they are unacceptable, then the majority of the employees will have pay and benefits continue while they look for another job, versus nothing except unemployment.
Change will occur one way or another. Either it's an America West type of contract or bankruptcy, where the pain will likely be worse.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Attachments
You don't want to accept it do you captain. It will be BK because unlike you people are at their personal end.USA320Pilot said:
Unlike you people know when enough is enough.
Unlike you we have been feeling the pain all along.
Unlike you we have been living on less then stellar wages and benefits.
Unlike you we know what pain feels like, living on the edge, working for this outfit.
Unlike you we are fed up with the never ending threats that if we don't submit to, more and more and more and more.
Unlike you with your Teflon constitution we have had it with the lies, deception, manipulation and all manner of union breaking tactics.
Unlike you, apparently with your never ending painful threats posts, we all know we can go on without this outfit's never ending threats and grief and total uncertainly.
Unlike you maybe most people want it to end subconsciously not wanting to up and quit on their own and are hoping for the end to become a reality once and for all.
Unlike you people have a limit to how much dirt they will eat, how many beatings they will take.
Unlike you most rational people realize the course of actions taken by this management will not cause people to do their will but only have the exact opposite effect practically assuring this company’s demise.
Unlike you people realize this is the end given the course of direction management has chosen, because unlike you most people working at U have reached the breaking point, unlike you they have a tensile strength limit and the gage says it's very close to the breaking point, where your gage is apparently broken.
