Attendants Asked For $116 Million

[mweiss]

Well, I can assure you that I don't share Katie's opinion, but she's at least right in the sense that that is what most people seem to think. It's true of most professions; the average person underestimates the amount of work others have to put in to get their paychecks, and generally overestimate how much they're making. I suspect it's related to the "grass is greener" syndrome with which we're all afflicted at various times in our lives.

BTW, I like your new avatar.

 

[Dea Certe]

The job of a flight attendant has changed drastically over the years, even more so since 9-11.

We see more abuse, more "disruptive" customers and well, just more people on flights. We don't have the amenities to offer like in the "old days". Some of this is caused by the airlines needing more revenue. The cheek-by-jowl seating tends to make everyone cranky. Many people have lost any sense of good manners. Traveling is not pleasant.

Flight attendants are now the true front line for security inflight. Is that person who appears to be acting "strange" just an oddball or a terrorist?

Personally, I earn every penny I'm paid and then some. I believe most airline employees do. Sure, there's some deadbeats out there and they should be dealt with accordingly.

I don't complain about the time I spend away from home. It comes with the territory. I do resent having my job degraded by people who know very little about it. We are usually the last to know why there's a delay or cancellation. We usually don't have any tools to assist our customers inflight when these situations arise.

Generally, your average "road warrior" understands our job better than most. They live the same life; crummy hotel rooms, long, ugly days and frustrations due to ATC/WX delays. They know the average work week is no where near 40 hours, neither is theirs! They, just like us, have little control over so many of things that really make flying stink.

I don't have any answers at the moment for all of this. Respect would be a good start. From both sides! I just want to make a decent living doing a job I'm good at and enjoy for the most part.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

Dea

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Bob, care for some cheese with YOUR whine? :down:

Gouda? Maybe a nice sharp cheddar...a few crackers perhaps?

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

(Edited) He simply isn't worth it.

 

[Bear96]

Do you think the rest of the working world gets paid for their commute time? If so, you've got a real surprise coming if you choose to switch careers. :blink:

mweiss,

I agree with the gist of your posts. But may I make a point about the airline industry which is unique compared to others. In the "real world," if you have to be at work at 9:00, you can generally plan to be pulling up in the parking lot outside your office a few minutes before 9 and that is swell.

But if you have to go to work at an airport, it is a different story. Where I am based, I have to allow a FULL HOUR before report time to park in the employee lot which is wayyyyy in the next county almost; take a shuttle bus; go through security; and then take ANOTHER bus / tram thingy to get to where I am supposed to be to check in for my duty day.

So if an office worker lives 20 minutes from home, to get to work by 9AM she can leave the house by 8:30 and be fine. For us to be at work by 9AM, I have to leave at more like 7:30.

And to those who will say, You knew this when you signed up, etc., etc., actually, not really. At most airports the hassles of getting from employee parking lot to work station got much worse after 9/11.

Fortunately in that regard, unless they fly only turns, pilots and F/As have it better than other airport employees because we rarely have to do that five days per week. But it does add up.

 

[Bear96]

Piney you are a mess today.

You started out by posting how we only have part-time jobs. Then when that was challenged, you went into a harangue about how you have it worse than we do so we should stop complaining. Different issue.

Yes we knew about what the job entailed when we signed on (and no one forced a gun to our heads, etc. etc.), and yes it sounds like your job is really lame and I am sorry you are so unhappy (didn't YOU know how much travelling you would have to do?). But you are forgetting one thing: we are not on here telling you to stop complaining or how easy you have it; rather, YOU are on here telling US that.

And you are right that we were (or should have been) informed about what we were getting into in taking the job. But you are also forgetting the other half of the equation: we understood it to be (and management expects it to be) a FULL-TIME COMMITMENT. What do you think management's reaction would be if I called and said, "Gee y'know what, I can't make my flight today because I have to work at my other job."

You can pull some statistics out of the air to make the case that it is only a full-time job, but we knew when we signed up that the deal was that it was a full-time position.

Most of us are now down to 10-12 days off per month. Your figure of working 14 days per month-- as in, 16/17 days of per month-- just cracked me up, it was so off base. Those days are gone. And BTW your favorite refrain of "You knew about it when you signed up / No one forced you to take the job" etc. etc. ad nauseam is incorrect when it comes to things like our work schedules of today. Not too long ago when we "signed up" many of us WERE having better schedules with more days off. For many of us, only 10-12 days off is NOT what we were told / expected when we took the job. But we are adapting.

Anyway. As you know being a frequent traveller yourself, a big chunk of our dwindling days off are taken up doing the mundane things others can do on their way to/from work every day like shopping or little chores around the house that others can do in the evenings that we cannot do because we are away travelling. What is left is little more than two days off every week. Surely we deserve that, which amounts to a weekend, or are we to spend all of our days off working part-time somewhere so relieve airline management can be relieved from the responsibility of paying us a living wage so your airfares can remain cheap and you can keep getting all of your perks?

 

[Dea Certe]

Piney,

You took my post exactly the way it was meant. Flight crews and most airline employees also pass through the "gentle hands" of the TSA. While I realize they are doing their jobs, it still bugs me that I have to get my bags pawed through. If I had any idea what sets off their curiosity, I would never pack it again! I've politely asked them what's of interest and only get a grunt.

I've been through a 10 year background check, had my fingerprints taken and can pass the "pee" test on command.

There's little I can do for my customers other than listen to their complaints, offer a comment card and pass along what I hear to management.

Perhaps if management would offer a form of an early out, I think many would go for it.

And Piney, as far as Jerry Glass and his comment about our sick list being 12%, I still question the method used to arrive at that percentage. I suspect maternity leaves, on the job injuries and can only guess what else was thrown into the mix. Remember, the FAA will not allow us to fly with leg, ankle or wrist braces. Flying with a head cold or sinus infection can cause serious damage, including hearing loss. Or a black eye from a co-worker who resents possible contamination that could cause a sick call from her a few days later! (just kidding)

Obviously, there's much I still enjoy about my job. Like many employees, I am frustrated that cost-saving ideas offered by the labor groups seem to be ignored. I'm bugged we don't have glasses in FC for drinks, but understand it's expensive to keep up. I hate it that our GA's are so short-staffed at times they are doing fast fandango from pillor to post to get planes out on time. God forbid there's a mechanical or weather situation!

I appreciate our FF's sticking with us while our management tries to get things sorted out. I look forward to seeing "my regulars" and am always grateful for a kind word from them. I am convinced we have the best FF's in the industry! I hope we can keep them by continuing to give them the best service, both in the air and on the ground, we can.

Thanks for hanging in there with us. Let's hope better days are ahead. But I don't think pay cuts are the answer. Better use of our current contracts would be the first place to start, IMO.


Dea

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Don''t look for a trip report this week I'm not doing one it's a family vacation and I'm not sharing. Have a nice life.

Pineybob

What is the point of your so called trip reports anyway? I haven't read then but wonder why anyone would be interested in your personal experiences?

I am sure that 28 year old F/A is happy you revealed the source of his/her illness in a P. Forum (P for public not private)

Why are you so angry at everyone? Why all the Upyour's.

 

[Bud8EE]

Or you could like at it like this,

Normal job 40 x 52 = 2080 hours away from home a year or for a 30 year career, 62400 hours or 2600 days or 7.1 years away from home and family


Flight Crew Typical 85 hours schedule = 450 hours of Time away from Base a month or 450 x 12 = 5400 hours a year or for a 30 year career 162,000 hours or 6750 days or 18.5 years away from home and family.


Most of the 18.5 years is completely away without the luxury of seeing them every day and sleeping in your own bed.

 

[cavalier]

Piney you are a mess today.

Make that most days.

Recently at work when a fellow co-worker found out I was, cav, asked me what was up with Bob being a non-employee and always on here worrying about every aspect of us

I did give him an answer but will let it to your imaginations... Love cav

 

[USA320Pilot]

I believe it was a good move for the AFA to hire an outside cosultant to evaluate the company's proposal and provide third party valuations.

I suspect you will see the company seek a contract with the AFA similar in scope to America West pay rates, elimination of the 55, 75, and 85 hour options with full benefits, work rule, benefit, and retirement changes to align the flight attendants with America West costs.

It's not pretty, but it's liveable.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delldude]

I believe it was a good move for the AFA to hire an outside cosultant to evaluate the company's proposal and provide third party valuations.

I suspect you will see the company seek a contract with the AFA similar in scope to America West pay rates, elimination of the 55, 75, and 85 hour options with full benfits, work rule, benefit, and retirement changes to align the flight attendants with America West costs.

It's not pretty, but it's liveable.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

you better hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.....
i've heard bad grumblings already from inside your heirarchy......
cwa doesn't sound like happy campers either........
and i don't want to think what the IAM will do in a vote......
AFA...???

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

It's not pretty, but it's liveable.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

USA320Pilot

Are you a Flight Attendant?

If not who are you to say what is livable or not livable?

If so then say it may be livable for you but don't speak for every Flight Attendant.

What is livable for one isn't necessarily livable for another

Don't you think?

 

[PITbull]

You forgot to include management, what will they be REQUIRED to give?

So far, all I've seen is a $425 mil salary for the new CEO.

Big deal. Where's the cut for management? No one has seen it nor has it been discussed.

I do know that middle management will be receiving quarterly retention bonsuses

Early outs are the ticket for most. This job will end up not being worth it and the union leaders will take the hit for trying to find the cost savings of $116.

It won't happen.

PIT f/as were surveyed and their overall answer for opening the contract is...


NO

(Even including a Ch 11 threat)


The MEC has not voted on whether to open the agreements when the MEC met on Friday. The MEC adjourned.

AFA will probably end up there, and negotiate for weeks. In the end, if certain items aren't fixed and certain other items are attacked or taken away that provides for a quaility job and profession. The T/A will fail.

The alternatives are up to managment. From all the e-mails I receive system wide, folks are pretty disqusted.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

you better hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.....
i've heard bad grumblings already from inside your heirarchy......
cwa doesn't sound like happy campers either........
and i don't want to think what the IAM will do in a vote......
AFA...???

Delldude

You are so right...

As far as IAM do you think they will do anything before the arbitrators decision? If and it is a big if the decision goes against IAM do the resulting cutbacks, layoffs, loss of work count against the savings U wants? minus what they pay outside vendor? Thats funny U wants the concessions in plave by Sept right? Isn't the arbitrators decision due after Sept 1 at the earliest? Let the games begin