Atsb Denies Loan

[PhillyFlyGuy]

Just blame US Airways. After seeing what has happened there, do you think the govt would make the same mistake twice? Or take the chance?

Question? How does this change things? Or does it?

Blame US Airways? Come on, It is very easy to point fingers but remember when you do, you have three fingers pointing right back at the one responsible. Please don't go using US Airways as a scapegoat for the denied ATSB application. :rant:

 

[Art at ISP]

First I would like to let my friends at UA know my thoughts and best wishes are with you. I have flown a couple of trips with you this year, and have noticed the way you have turned things around operationally--in fact I think you have set a new example for exemplary service.

I agree with Jetz on this one. I believe the board was saying that they feel that UA can make it without the guarantees--which is in a way a back door compliment I guess (?)

I also don't think it has anything to do with US--the situation there is completely different, and I still believe both carriers will ultimately survive.

I think we should let cooler heads prevail, and see what develops. I don't think it does anyone any good to flame and incite here--no one wants to see thousands of our friends and colleagues out on the street.

My best to you all...........

 

[Dilligas]

Sorry to hear about UAL not getting the loan... sadly,I am sure it will mean more cutbacks, layoffs, and the early termination of some careers.

This biz just ain't what it used to be, is it? :down:

My sincere best wishes to the folks at UAL, hang in there!

D

 

[767jetz]

I'll bet a beer that UA gets the loan guarantee in some "modified" form by the end of the month, albeit a loan guarantee with a ton of restrictions. Any takers?

I agree.

This is a setback but not a knockout punch.

There will be no major asset sale. By now, everyone knows that selling assets dilutes the franchise and will mean the ultimate demise of the airliine. (ie: TWA, PAN AM, Eastern, etc.)

It makes no sense to sell the cash cow. (Pacific, LHR) Anyone hoping for an asset sale is grabbing at straws.

UA is so close to turnign the corner, a loan will be in place by month end. One way or another. You can take that to the bank.

 

[767jetz]

Blame US Airways? Come on, It is very easy to point fingers but remember when you do, you have three fingers pointing right back at the one responsible. Please don't go using US Airways as a scapegoat for the denied ATSB application. :rant:

I agree 100%. This has nothing to do with USAIrways.

Most people here are just misrepresenting the facts. If they would look at the facts and inform themselves, they would realize that the ATSB turned down the loan because of the belief that with the restructuring UA has gone through, we have access to credit and do not need the ATSB backing.

This may actually be a blessing in in disguise. We may be better off without the rerstrictions imposed by them.

We didn't come this far just to run away with our tail between our legs.

Everyone chill and give it another week or two.

 

[JetClipper]

You guys wanna cool it with the “my heart goes out to Unitedâ€￾ garbage? You make it sound as if UAL lost another airplane.

ATSB-backed loan or not, United will survive. It’s just now they will be forced to do what they should have been doing in late 2002; e.g., massive head- and route-cutting, putting the kibosh on million-dollar ad campaigns, etc.

 

[GadgetFreak]

Oh hell, I say #### the ATSB. This weekend Im going to be looking to book some travel on UA for July and August. Any suggestions?

Hang in there!

 

[767jetz]

Thanks GadgetFreak.

I hear the Pacific Islands are beautiful this time of year!

IT'S TIME TO FLY!

------------------------------------------------

I agree with the first part of JetClipper's post. Everyone cool it with those "my heart goes out to you" comments. We appreciate the good will, but it's not like UA lost a hull. No one died. UA will be just fine.

This is no time for drama. Positive thoughts please.

 

[Bizman]

CALno.1:

You're a real class act with your comments. Your response was provocative, inflaming, insensitive, and disrespectful to the thousands of dedicated professionals at United. More importantly, your comments reflect an emotional immaturity on your part. As a flight officer, I would think that you would conduct yourself in a more dignified manner

It's amazing when the shoe's on the other foot how the tide shanges. Get over it, CALno.1 is right!!!!!!!

 

[UnitedChicago]

I think it's funny that Frontier, et al were so opposed to the loan. United will now achieve an even lower cost structure and be that much more of a competitive threat.

Maybe United should thank them in the end. HAHAHHAHAH

 

[hp_fa]

Would someone please explain to me the meaning of the PR release from UA last night where they were somehow confused by the timing of the rejection while UAL was supposedly modifying the application. How long has the UAL application been filed and been able to be amended, therefore why that PR release?

 

[funguy2]

767jetz and coolflyingfool:

I agree with you both.

I thought UAL would get the load because 1. They are UAL and 2. Election year politics.

However, I always thought they should be denied on the basis of not being denied access to capital markets... UAL was never denied access to capital markets, they never tried to use them! Combine with that the following facts:

1. Several airlines have successfully completed debt offerings, including nearly-BK ATA, which took a while, but they got it done. I see Horizon has a debt offering today

2. There is venture capital out there for Virgin America (supposedly).

3. Recent IPO's for Republic Holdings (Chautauqua/Shuttle America/Republic Airways holding company, soon to be part of the UA Express family) and Pinnacle Airways (NW Airlink) suggest there is access to capital markets.

4. Hawaiian Holdings had 13 investor groups looking to bring it out of BK.

5. Previously, TPG had expressed an interest in UAL.

I believe that UAL trying to get an ATSB loan, to emerge from BK, is a clever way of retaining value for current stockholders (where in BK, normally these folks lose their investment). This is the right thing to do for the stockholders, but not necessarily for the American taxpayer.

So, I am surprised by the denial, even though I think its the right thing to do. I think UAL will emerge from BK stronger because of the denial, and I think that UAL will get some financial backing from TPG or a similar type investment. I would think that TPG would have to seriously consider making an offer to the BK court...

 

[The Ronin]

You know I heard when the pilot contract of 2000 was announced you could hear a pin drop....well how does it sound now....didn't ol' Dubinsky and ALPA just change the face of aviation???? How 9000 a**holes destroyed 75yrs of heritage and the jobs of 100,000 people...with a little help of course from a collection of fat guys wearing slacks. You pissed off our passengers, you pissed off the government, and you pissed off the industry. Reap what you so my friends....

Oh I forgot...."don't want to hear it"..."what about you guys"..."we can't dwell on the past"....bullsh*t

 

[farber2000]

I recall the summer of hell. My family vacation was ruined because an arrogant pilot walked off the flight as part of Dubinskys plan to squeeze UA managemnts balls. Instead, they squeezed passsangers balls and many, like myself, have never returned. I would love to see a formal apology from UAL ALPA for the self serving disruption the pilots caused. The $700 million in loses that resulted from that summer sure would be handy right now.

f2000

 

[ohcaptainron]

The Ronin, two words, anger management.