Atsb Denies Loan

[767jetz]

It's amazing how many people come out of the woodwork to gloat, thinking (incorrectly I might add) that this turn of events is the end of United.

What small minds some of you have. That will be your downfall.

Let's try to keep this in perspective by looking at the statement from the ATSB itself:
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...It credited cost-cutting moves over the past 18 months and said it believes the company's access to credit markets is improving.

"Given these circumstances, a majority of the board believes that the likelihood of United succeeding without a loan guarantees is sufficiently high so as to make a loan guarantee unnecessary"
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Which part of that do you folks not understand?

For those who are too busy dancing in the streets, thinking your own problems are suddenly solved, or that somehow you will benefit at the expense of UA (this means you bigbusdrvr) to actually read why the ATSB turned down the loan, allow me to deflate your head a bit.

The ATSB was not convinced that UA's situation is dire. In fact they believe that UA's does have access to capital markets, and therefore does not need a guarantee. No where did they say that they believe UA's business plan was inadequate. (That is exactly what they said last time, and would say it again if that were the case.) In fact they said the exact opposite! They believe the cost cutting of the past 18 months makes the ATSB guarantee unnecessary.

There will be no asset sale. The Pacific is going nowhere. Same for LHR.

Either Tilton will resubmit with further cost savings, or a worst case scenario will be employees negotiating a deal that will allow UA to afford the loan from JP Morgan and Citigroup without a guarantee from the gov't.

 

[Borescope]

We do not believe that the Board was made fully aware of the important modifications United was willing to bring to the table.

Should have put it up front at first. Typical UAL management, all high and mighty. Guess I'll be looking for work down at the local Ford dealer. Oh, well probalably make more money and be able to buy cheap tickets on WN for travel

 

[Borescope]

The airline industry is likely to look considerably different this time next year, and it won't be just United making changes.

Hey, he can take his golden parachute and go get a job with Seigel.

 

[767jetz]

One more thing.

For those who think that the banks won't loan money to a "company that the US gov't wouldn't loan money to", you are mistaken.

First, the Gov't was never going to loan UA a dime. They decided that UA doesn't need their help to get a loan.

Second, JP Morgan and Citigroup were intimately involved in the process from the start. They were the ones advizing UA on how to procede. They were the ones with the money. They will be the ones providing exit financing anyway. No, not TPG or anyone in Alabama.

 

[Borescope]

What airline benefits the most by the Feds refusal for $$$$ to UAL ???

All airlines. Less ASM's = more $$$ for the others.

 

[Bizman]

The ATSB was not convinced that UA's situation is dire. In fact they believe that UA's does have access to capital markets, and therefore does not need a guarantee.

This is called good lobbying by all against UAL.

 

[767jetz]

What airline benefits the most by the Feds refusal for $$$$ to UAL ???

Excuse me, but the "Feds" were never going to lend any $$$$ to UAL in the first place. The banks are.

Why do people keep getting this wrong?

UA was not denied a loan today. UA was denied gov't backing for a loan because the gov't believes that UA can get the loan without their help.

How hard is this to understand people?

 

[Borescope]

JP Morgan and Citigroup were intimately involved in the process from the start. They were the ones advizing UA on how to procede. They were the ones with the money. They will be the ones providing exit financing anyway.

You are correct Jetz. But instead of getting that preferential rate we are going to be paying through the collective noses of the employees. Say bye bye to your big fat pension. With the rates we are going to be paying for the loans there is no way we are going to be the same size we are today. I look for significant asset sales to get the amount of the loan down to a manageable amount.

 

[Borescope]

UA was not denied a loan today. UA was denied gov't backing for a loan because the gov't believes that UA can get the loan without their help.

How hard is this to understand people?

Which effectively means "No Loan". Without the government BACKING, the banks aren't going to loan the money.

How hard is this to understand people?

 

[Bizman]

Where is FLY?????????????????

 

[C54Capt]

Where is Busdrvr?????????????

I'll bet a beer that UA gets the loan guarantee in some "modified" form by the end of the month, albeit a loan guarantee with a ton of restrictions. Any takers?

 

[JAMAKE1]

CALno.1:

You're a real class act with your comments. Your response was provocative, inflaming, insensitive, and disrespectful to the thousands of dedicated professionals at United. More importantly, your comments reflect an emotional immaturity on your part. As a flight officer, I would think that you would conduct yourself in a more dignified manner. Your dialogue is counter-productive and anybody who works for a legacy carrier should not be casting stones. We are all in this mess together. If you cannot contribute to a productive discussion then please stay in your own sand box. Enough said...

 

[coolflyingfool]

I thought they would get it, but just because they are UA. HOLY SHEET. I am really surprised the ATSB said no. Just my thoughts........

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

One more thing.

For those who think that the banks won't loan money to a "company that the US gov't wouldn't loan money to", you are mistaken.

First, the Gov't was never going to loan UA a dime. They decided that UA doesn't need their help to get a loan.

Second, JP Morgan and Citigroup were intimately involved in the process from the start. They were the ones advizing UA on how to procede. They were the ones with the money. They will be the ones providing exit financing anyway. No, not TPG or anyone in Alabama.

Lack of leadership. How could your carpet-bagger friends at JP/Citibank along with Tilton/Brace so badly misjudged the market??

How can you possibly follow these guys anywhere?

This whole ATSB dance has been a colossal squander of credibility and energy.

Notice folks, two of the three ATSB voters were a strong 'NO' and only because the third voter waffled is the reason why we are now fantasizing about a revised ATSB application.

Precious time has been wasted. Move on and good luck!!

 

[firstamendment]

Just blame US Airways. After seeing what has happened there, do you think the govt would make the same mistake twice? Or take the chance?

Question? How does this change things? Or does it?