article on profit sharing

[WNMECH]

I agree. As far as the mentality issue goes? You and I will have to ask the TWU International why they gave it up instead of just keeping it and negotiate a pay raise like a real union would do.

It is so simple and I don't understand why nobody sees it.

The TWU gets a dues increase when they raise base pay rates only.
That is ALL they care about.
They don't get any piece of the profit sharing if you get it.
So they have no interest in it.
They will trade away any benefit they can for a base raise because it is more money for them.

Trading it away was easier than actually negotiating raises.

 

[WNMECH]

Duplicate.

 

[WNMECH]

The graph in this article doesn't show the full picture of WN profit sharing distributions.
 
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/mitchell-schnurman/20140802-schnurman-come-on-aa-share-the-wealth.ece
 
Pre 9/11 payouts were larger. Now that all airlines are showing profit growth, I expect to see our profit sharing take off too.
 
 The 1999 profitsharing contribution of $138,336,916 represents 14.1 percent of eligible salaries. From 1992 through 1999, each Southwest Employee received an average of 10.6 percent of their eligible salary as additional compensation in the form of profitsharing contributions.

 

[WNMECH]

These are the approximate profit sharing amounts to WN employees for 2000 and 2001
 
March 15, 2002
 
Southwest Airlines Co., the largest carrier at Baltimore-Washington International Airport and the only major U.S. carrier to make money last year, distributed 19 percent less in profit sharing to workers after the Sept. 11 attacks deepened a decline in travel during the U.S. recession.
The amount fell to $146 million, or about 12 percent of each worker's gross salary last year, from $179.8 million in 2000, or 16 percent on a per-worker basis, said June Jackson, Southwest's retirement benefits manager. The airline's net income slid 15 percent to $511.1 million last year from 2000.

 

[swamt]

WNMECH you are correct.  Hoping to see those numbers again some time soon.  The prob with getting to those numbers once again is the fact that the number of employees sharing in the PS awards are much larger now.  We will see how the next few years go after W/A, international,  the full synergies from the AT purchase, as well as the gained slots at DCA and LCA up north.  Things look pretty darn strong in the future...

 

[Rogallo]

No offense! Please take your lovely WN profit sharing discussion over to the WN board. You're making us AA folks kinda depressed that we work for an inferior Co. and are represented by an inferior union! TWU that is!
 
I got an email today asking for my shirt size so they could give me a union tee shirt. I haven't stopped laughing yet!
That's about all I get for my dues! I'd be ashamed and embarrassed to wear a TWU tee shirt in public.
 
TWU GOTTA GO!  YOU SUCK!

 

[WNMECH]

No offense! Please take your lovely WN profit sharing discussion over to the WN board. You're making us AA folks kinda depressed that we work for an inferior Co. and are represented by an inferior union! TWU that is!
 
I got an email today asking for my shirt size so they could give me a union tee shirt. I haven't stopped laughing yet!
That's about all I get for my dues! I'd be ashamed and embarrassed to wear a TWU tee shirt in public.
 
TWU GOTTA GO!  YOU SUCK!

Sorry.

Just trying to show you why the TWU screwed over AA mechanics, and how profit sharing is not as trivial as some people are claiming.

I think the TWU did it because they don't get a piece of the profit sharing.

 

[AirLUVer]

It is so simple and I don't understand why nobody sees it.

The TWU gets a dues increase when they raise base pay rates only.
That is ALL they care about.
They don't get any piece of the profit sharing if you get it.
So they have no interest in it.
They will trade away any benefit they can for a base raise because it is more money for them.

Trading it away was easier than actually negotiating raises.

 
From what I remember, this was actually part of the ME TOO clause that the TWU had in their contract.  When the pilots were Sectioned 6, and worked out a new agreement, they negotiated a larger raise and relinquished Profit Sharing. 
 
The TWU and APFA both got slightly higher pay instead of Profit Sharing.

 

[FWAAA]

From what I remember, this was actually part of the ME TOO clause that the TWU had in their contract.  When the pilots were Sectioned 6, and worked out a new agreement, they negotiated a larger raise and relinquished Profit Sharing. 
 
The TWU and APFA both got slightly higher pay instead of Profit Sharing.

No, that is not correct.     AA's bankruptcy term sheets offered all work groups 15% first dollar profit sharing.  
 
During 1113 negotiations,  the APA traded away 2/3 of the profit sharing in exchange for reduced concessions and small raises.   The me-too clauses resulted in all other work groups also giving up 2/3 of their profit sharing in exchange for similar reduced concessions.   Now, all AA work groups had just 5% profit sharing instead of 15% of profits.
 
The pilots gave away the rest of their profit sharing in their MOU, but the me-too clauses were not applicable anymore.   The TWU then gave away the last third (5%) profit sharing in exchange for a meager raise.    Fools.  

 

[WeAAsles]

No, that is not correct.     AA's bankruptcy term sheets offered all work groups 15% first dollar profit sharing.  
 
During 1113 negotiations,  the APA traded away 2/3 of the profit sharing in exchange for reduced concessions and small raises.   The me-too clauses resulted in all other work groups also giving up 2/3 of their profit sharing in exchange for similar reduced concessions.   Now, all AA work groups had just 5% profit sharing instead of 15% of profits.
 
The pilots gave away the rest of their profit sharing in their MOU, but the me-too clauses were not applicable anymore.   The TWU then gave away the last third (5%) profit sharing in exchange for a meager raise.    Fools.

That 5% would not be 5% of AA's total profit but 5% then distributed under the formula that AA had agreed to within the BK. You are making an assumption that it would equal 5% then of course not divided out among ALL TWU members.

Anyway you want to slice it, the 4.3% raise created more individual value then the profit that would have been disbursed.

At the end of the year take AA'S total profits and the distribution formula that can still be found online and take that to your accountant along with a comparison of your gross wages for the year factoring in the 4.3% and ask him what was the better choice?

 

[WNMECH]

Anyway you want to slice it, the 4.3% raise created more individual value then the profit that would have been disbursed.
 

 
More value from dues for the TWU because they would receive zero from the profit sharing.
 
What was the distribution formula. How about some numbers instead of rhetoric. 
 
 
 I also think I remember something about the TWU keeping some of the stock shares that were meant to be for the employees IIRC. Someone can refresh my memory on that.

 

[WeAAsles]

More value from dues for the TWU because they would receive zero from the profit sharing.
 
What was the distribution formula. How about some numbers instead of rhetoric. 
 
 
 I also think I remember something about the TWU keeping some of the stock shares that were meant to be for the employees IIRC. Someone can refresh my memory on that.

The answers you seek have been given multiple times on here and in other forums. I can answer both but it would not be taken as popular or accepted on this particular site since it doesn't suit the agenda.

If you are honestly just seeking information that hasn't already been explained to you I apologize for not wanting to repeat it any longer.

You may wish to contact your local?

 

[FWAAA]

 I also think I remember something about the TWU keeping some of the stock shares that were meant to be for the employees IIRC. Someone can refresh my memory on that.

I'm no TWU apologist (unlike WeAAsles or Overspeed or the like) but the TWU had no choice in that issue.   The TWU (unlike the APFA) decided to punish those who took the early-out option and did not permit the early-outs to share in any of the equity.   The early-outs filed a class-action lawsuit against the TWU and the court ordered that the TWU hold back 10% of the TWU equity in case the early-outs win.   

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm no TWU apologist (unlike WeAAsles or Overspeed or the like) but the TWU had no choice in that issue.   The TWU (unlike the APFA) decided to punish those who took the early-out option and did not permit the early-outs to share in any of the equity.   The early-outs filed a class-action lawsuit against the TWU and the court ordered that the TWU hold back 10% of the TWU equity in case the early-outs win.

Wrong on the punishment comment. The case is scheduled to be heard mid September.

 

[WNMECH]

The answers you seek have been given multiple times on here and in other forums. I can answer both but it would not be taken as popular or accepted on this particular site since it doesn't suit the agenda.

If you are honestly just seeking information that hasn't already been explained to you I apologize for not wanting to repeat it any longer.

You may wish to contact your local?

 
More rhetoric, no real numbers.
 
Ok, I will contact my local. AMFA 11.