April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

Indeed. It'd be amusing, but not even worth the effort to post his earlier supportive posts, from not long after the nic came out. Po' widdle baby didn't get to shorten his commute to PHX, and in doing so; kick some westie outta' the top spot. How truly tragic for the whole of western civilization...and what fine and noble basis upon which to change anyone's "moral" positions. 😉

Didn't take long.....

 

[EastUS1]

Didn't take long.....

Kudos for the effort. I couldn't bring myself to waste even that much time on the creature. 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

Glad to help!

Uh Huh:

2005

924PS said:
"Hopefully, you are not an ALPA Merger Committee or other representative of USAirways ALPA.
Please explain to me what is immoral or unethical about applying DOH?"... 🙂

Explain it to us now 924BS: What IS "immoral or unethical about applying DOH?" 😉

 

[N924PS]

N924PS
Posted 13 October 2005 - 05:13 PM




Date of Hire is Unity and Unity is Date of Hire.

And yes we do deserve to go to the top of the list. We paid for it with our pensions, work rules, vacation, sick leave, quality of life.

The Parker/Lakefield dream would never have been a possible without the sacrifices of the USAirways employees.

We bring lots of flying and lots of retirements to the merger. Who should benefit from the USAirways atrrition? Certainly the USAirways pilots, including the furloughees.


N924PS
Posted 20 October 2005 - 02:34 AM



traderjake, on Oct 19 2005, 02:34 PM, said:

"I'm a First Officer who can't hold Captain at US. I'm 2000 out of 2700 active pilots. If it goes DOH I would be senior to all but the top 200 Captains at AWA.

That's a windfall."


924PS said:


"And your probably one of the 57% percent of the USAirways pilots that voted for LOA 93 too. Grow some cojones will you."



N924PS
Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:58 PM


Veteran

• 
  

traderjake, on Oct 20 2005, 03:37 PM, said:

When the airline began to shrink USAir and PSA F/O's who upgraded to Captain as a result of the merger remained Captains while Piedmont Captains were downgraded to First Officer. So yes, their jobs were taken from them.

That's why DOH is unfair.

The AWA 737 Captain who is a bolckholder should go ahead of the reserve US 737 Captain.

That's why slotted equipment ratio is probably the fairest system."

924PS said:


"Hopefully, you are not an ALPA Merger Committee or other representative of USAirways ALPA.

Please explain to me what is immoral or unethical about applying DOH? It has been the standard at every merger from Allegheny-Mohawk-Lake Central-PSA-Piedmont. Glaring exception; The Shuttle pilots were slotted. There weren't that many and most have or will soon be retired, hence the slotting."

Yes. Note the date.

That was prior to the process that the pilots of USAirways and America West agreed to.

The one that took over a year of negotiation, mediation, and finally binding arbitration.

After seeing Lee Seham's presentation at the USAPA road shows I made up my mind he was selling a lost cause to the East pilots. I still believe this to be the ultimate outcome. But I will be long retired before it has a final solution.

Color me old school, but I believe we should have lived up to our agreement with America West pilots. The machinations of USAPA has cost us individually and collectively lots of money, quality of life and ill will. Perhaps you think it has been worth it, but after almost a decade on LOA 93, I think not.

Good job on the research. Maybe Jamie can use you at his firm as a paralegal!

 

[N924PS]

Uh Huh:

2005

924PS said:
"Hopefully, you are not an ALPA Merger Committee or other representative of USAirways ALPA.
Please explain to me what is immoral or unethical about applying DOH?"... 🙂

Explain it to us now 924BS: What IS "immoral or unethical about applying DOH?" 😉

Because we didn't get it after following a process that both sides agreed to. WE LOST!

 

[end_of_alpa]

My point of view on the reason USAPA exists and what has transpired since the Nicolau Award was rendered in 2007 has not changed, if that is your implication.

The reason that USAPA exists is because the majority of pilots were not going to follow the direction of other pilots from other airlines who thought the VALUE of East pilots were LESS than the value of themselves. We still have the same problem and even Harper says that the majority of West pilots don't speak for the class with their vote. Sounds like fascism (spell checked before posting) to everyone else but AwFOL.

 

[Pi brat]

Yes. Note the date.

That was prior to the process that the pilots of USAirways and America West agreed to.

The one that took over a year of negotiation, mediation, and finally binding arbitration.

After seeing Lee Seham's presentation at the USAPA road shows I made up my mind he was selling a lost cause to the East pilots. I still believe this to be the ultimate outcome. But I will be long retired before it has a final solution.

Color me old school, but I believe we should have lived up to our agreement with America West pilots. The machinations of USAPA has cost us individually and collectively lots of money, quality of life and ill will. Perhaps you think it has been worth it, but after almost a decade on LOA 93, I think not.

Good job on the research. Maybe Jamie can use you at his firm as a paralegal!

So, the mother of all agreements was the transition agreement. In that document we agree to stay separate until we have a JCBA. So you think we should ALL honor that, no matter what the reason, or should we have accepted the POS Kirby to give the west their windfall. And tell me you agree that the Nic gave some of them a (potential) windfall?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Glad to help!

That is a picture of my twin brother. I thought the word on that cap said DANCE and I went to the disco instead. Go figure...!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Because we didn't get it after following a process that both sides agreed to. WE LOST!

Again, ALPA East MEC, ALPA West MEC and ALPA national CANNOT LEGALLY BIND the pilot group without a LEGALLY BINDING JCBA that had to be ratified by BOTH East and West pilots separately. That is an inconvenient truth for you guys, but it is a truth none the less. If you are ever represented in court of any kind, your lawyer(lier, ha ha) can not bind you without your consent (unless you are a minor and the court appoints you a Guardian ad litum or you are legally incompetent which in any case requires a hearing, findings of fact and conclusions of law. THEN you are assigned a lawyer that can sign documents and make decisions without you on your behalf) . A labor union is vested with the same power per the Supreme Court. But only the Rank and File can bind the group with a majority vote.

 

[EastUS1]

Because we didn't get it after following a process that both sides agreed to. WE LOST!

It more seems the case that YOU lost, in that you couldn't use your DOH acquired placement on the nic list to shorten your commute. Cry me a river. Personal selfishness is no reason to sell out those junior, that one's worked with for decades...Ever...Period!

 

[traderjake]

What's a stupid thing to say is seniority is whatever you wish it to be when it has already been legally defined.

What's stupid is to ignore the rulings of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations.

 

[traderjake]

Stupid? What did you get with USAir Piedmont?

Screwed.

 

[Black Swan]

What's stupid is to ignore the rulings of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations.

What is even more stupid was the screwing with DOH in the first place. Every other work group but the pilots integrated successfully. Ours is an abortion because ALPA screwed with a proven method. Those who tried to game the system are usually pilots and it causes trouble. Who cares what the previous four were. Seniority by hire date is recognized by 99% of workers, including judges.

 

[traderjake]

traderjake, on Oct 20 2005, 03:37 PM, said:

When the airline began to shrink USAir and PSA F/O's who upgraded to Captain as a result of the merger remained Captains while Piedmont Captains were downgraded to First Officer. So yes, their jobs were taken from them.

That's why DOH is unfair.

The AWA 737 Captain who is a bolckholder should go ahead of the reserve US 737 Captain.

That's why slotted equipment ratio is probably the fairest system."

Expressive research.

"bolckholder"?

 

[traderjake]

What is even more stupid was the screwing with DOH in the first place. Every other work group but the pilots integrated successfully. Ours is an abortion because ALPA screwed with a proven method. Those who tried to game the system are usually pilots and it causes trouble. Who cares what the previous four were. Seniority by hire date is recognized by 99% of workers, including judges.

The overwhelming probability is that you're gonna lose.