April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Metroyet]

Great question. Give us the concise legal definition of "LUP" please, so that we might better look around for it....? That shouldn't be any problem for you, since you're hanging your whole, supposed case on it. Umm...Wait one second first though...OK. I've got my rabidly-drooling-"dire-wolf"-to-English-dictionary now ready, so go ahead....?

You unequivocally, and with authority LOST that "supposed" case last time. Fix ripeness and you're done. I think on some level, you all know that.

 

[Phoenix]

Ripeness in the singular reason the Jury in Addington I didn't end this mess in 2008. That's cost you 5 more years on LOA 93. All USAPA has is a claim of "not yet" when everybody else agrees that this cant get any more ripe than it is now.

If USAPA is such the integrity filled beacon of hope, a bastion of proper, honest, and fair representation for ALL it's membership, then you all should be holding hands skipping into the courtroom ready to finally clear the air and prove what a good and righteous organization you champion. After all, your organization has cost well over a Billion dollars, has by far, the highest dues rate in the World, and has exactly nothing to show as a work product but a warehouse filled with legal documents all crying "not yet".

This BS is coming to an end very shortly. Silver never let the company off the liability hook. The company has ZERO liability to USAPA for imposing the nic award. However or wherever USAPAS ultimate loss comes, it's coming and USAPA, without question, WILL be decertified long before any appeals process can conclude. I guess you'll then be free to form an LLC, fund it to the tune of millions of dollars, and head back to court...in say 7 years.

Did you quote a standard in that long post anywhere?

 

[Phoenix]

You unequivocally, and with authority LOST that "supposed" case last time. Fix ripeness and you're done. I think on some level, you all know that.

Once you have ripeness then you can have a trial based on the facts and circumstances at the time of the trial, governed by the the laws and standards as understood at the time of trial. All entirely different. Who knows what would happen but it will all shakeout within a wide range of reasonableness, in due time.

 

[traderjake]

DOH with conditions and restrictions that were extremely reasonable to both sides.

No it was not.

What a stupid thing to say.

 

[Metroyet]

Once you have ripeness then you can have a trial based on the facts and circumstances at the time of the trial, governed by the the laws and standards as understood at the time of trial. All entirely different. Who knows what would happen but it will all shakeout within a wide range of reasonableness, in due time.

Or just a simple summary Judgement issued from the bench in 10 days. It may not really be all that hard. You had your day in court and, via jury, lost. The merits haven't changed a bit, you ratified a joint contract, and it's as ripe as it can get. My feeling is you've painted yourselves into the corner as tight as your going to be able to.

 

[Pi brat]

Ripeness in the singular reason the Jury in Addington I didn't end this mess in 2008. That's cost you 5 more years on LOA 93. All USAPA has is a claim of "not yet" when everybody else agrees that this cant get any more ripe than it is now.

The merits have never been reviewed, they stopped at ripeness, so your claim is incorrect.

If the merger with AA should fall apart, would the case unripen? A new word to go along with LUP.

 

[Pi brat]

Or just a simple summary Judgement issued from the bench in 10 days. It may not really be all that hard. You had your day in court and, via jury, lost. The merits haven't changed a bit, you ratified a joint contract, and it's as ripe as it can get. My feeling is you've painted yourselves into the corner as tight as your going to be able to.

This ones a keeper for the bs file.

 

[3dtv]

Or just a simple summary Judgement issued from the bench in 10 days. It may not really be all that hard. You had your day in court and, via jury, lost. The merits haven't changed a bit, you ratified a joint contract, and it's as ripe as it can get. My feeling is you've painted yourselves into the corner as tight as your going to be able to.

The company has an LUP for you:

"Thus, while the MOU does constitute an amendment to the Transition Agreement because the Transition Agreement would have required use of the Nicolau Award seniority list once there was a single collective bargaining agreement
(such as the MOU) for the East and West pilots, it does not preclude use of the Nicolau
Award. Against that backdrop, the MOU was ratified by the US Airways pilots, including
the majority of West Pilots, and will provide significant pay increases to both East and
West pilots upon the closing of the merger."

 

[Metroyet]

so you'll be exstatic when Silver declares this ripe and reviews the merits then right? Congrats.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Ripeness in the singular reason the Jury in Addington I didn't end this mess in 2008. That's cost you 5 more years on LOA 93. All USAPA has is a claim of "not yet" when everybody else agrees that this cant get any more ripe than it is now.

Well, yes. It might very well be that it "can't get any more ripe than it is now," but that doesn't mean it is ripe enough to be heard in court, either.

When it is ripe enough to be tried (JCBA), it will be well past the time that the old TA is rendered a nullity (and with it the Nicolau list.)

Game, set, match. You lose, loser.

 

[EastUS1]

If USAPA is such the integrity filled beacon of hope....

That's admittedly arguable, I suppose, since unlike the mighty "spartans"; the union never printed up any "Integrity Matters" T-shirts, and by that ommission; not "proving" themselves to be perfect paradigms of it.

 

[EastUS1]

What Marty says:

"Barely more than half of the West Pilots with positions on the Nicolau Award list participated in the MOU ratification vote. Only about 2/3 of the members of the putative West Pilot Class participated. Even if the MOU were an overt vote on whether to abandon the Nicolau Award (which it was not),

this subgroup of West Pilots cannot consent to abandonment of the Nicolau Award for the entire West Pilot Class."

There's that silly "majority" of the West pilots that don't speak for the minority argument again.

Lemme' see if I've got this right: 98% of west voters approved the MOU, but a mere "Barely more than half of the West Pilots.." voted, which still constitutes a majority, but then; "Only about 2/3 of the members..", so...said majority's really only an insignificant "subgroup of West Pilots"...? Sheesh!...I've always heard it was impossible to speak outta' more than two sides of a person's mouth at the same time. It turns out that isn't true at all.

 

[Black Swan]

No it was not.

What a stupid thing to say.

Stupid? What did you get with USAir Piedmont?

 

[Black Swan]

so you'll be exstatic when Silver declares this ripe and reviews the merits then right? Congrats.

She can't determine it to be ripe. That is if she doesn't want to lose on appeal. She won't. She is too intelligent to attempt what Wake did.

 

[cleardirect]

Well, yes. It might very well be that it "can't get any more ripe than it is now," but that doesn't mean it is ripe enough to be heard in court, either.

When it is ripe enough to be tried (JCBA), it will be well past the time that the old TA is rendered a nullity (and with it the Nicolau list.)

Game, set, match. You lose, loser.

Let me get this straight. In your world our case is not ripe right up to the point that it is to late.

Never getting a chance to obtain justice.

Does that sound like a system that you want to live with? A system where you never have your day in court?

I believe Bybee of the ninth said this very thing during the hearing. He know what scum bags east pilots were. He stated this strategy 3 years ago. You all had better hope that is not the legal system we have. Because one day that will turn on you. Majority rules remember that mantra?

Besides why so afraid of have the court decide who is right?

What you really should be afraid of is if the company, urged by the money guys decides to finally follow thought with their legal agreement and just declares the Nicolau the list. No hearing, no trial, no appeal.

That would be game, set, match loser.