April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[MyJ4JjobSucks]

One thing I thought was interesting, and a bit off the wall. Siegel seemed to have Silver believing the west and east pilots could be represented by two seperate attorneys. The west currently has pilots on both senority lists. Would those pilots be represented by both opposing attorneys? Seems like a conflict of interest.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The MOU does not and can trump federal law or the NMB.

Logic D-

Nobody said it did. In fact, the Judge has told you guys numerous times that USAPA is not bound to the Nic.

Stupidity A+

 

[Bill Brasky]

Do you think an arbitration panel would ignore and nullify final and binding arbitration?

The cornerstone of their living?

No, the Federal court is doing that, even as we speak. You need to get over it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The MOU does not and can trump federal law or the NMB.

Logic D-

Huh???

 

[CallawayGolf]

Do you really think that there is a "snowballs chance in hell", that a three arbitrator M/B panel would resurrect and compel the use of the NIC? Really?!


seajay

I didn't say I thought they would or wouldn't. I think it may depend on what evidence is presented to them. If the NIC makes its way to the arbitration panel by way of the west, the Company, APA, or by order of Silver then they certainly may give it proper consideration. If USAPA is successful in suppressing that from the evidence then obviously it wouldn't be looked at.

Assuming they don't see or use the NIC in any part of the new SLI award, then the question that seems more critical is do they get one DOH list from USAPA even though LCC pilots aren't integrated in that manner today, or do they get the east and west lists separately? If they end up with three lists to integrate, I would be quite surprised if they use a method other than a ratio list slotted by equipment and status. The east pilots who have returned since being furloughed in prior to the 2005 merger will be nicely protected this time (whereas they didn't have anything that could be protected in 2005/2007 since they didn't have a job at the time). Most of the west active west pilots will be pushed further down the list compared to their positions on the NIC, but they should be protected in their current. West furloughees would likely be at the bottom, but that's a risk they decided to take relative to the NIC legal battles. No matter how you slice it, I fail to see how an arbitration panel would devise a scheme that would shuffle a person up to a higher equipment/seat status by knowingly pushing another pilot down to a lower equipment/seat status as a result of their award.

 

[Zone5]

Do you think an arbitration panel would ignore and nullify final and binding arbitration?

The cornerstone of their living?

Obviously, you don't understand the concept of "subject to", the implementation of the NIC was subject to, a ratified East-West JCBA, never happened and that's what made the NIC not final and binding! The MOU makes it moot right along with both East and West contracts including all underlying LOA's. You need to pay more attention in class at the AOL pilot law school, or at least spend a few nights at a Holiday Inn Express. No matter, Judge Silver gets it. How's that 330 bid looking to you "Nic or nothing" diehards? At least you will get one of two results with that approach, doesn't look like the NIC so enjoy the nothing part.


seajay

 

[cleardirect]

Huh???

#3805 PullUp Posted Today, 09:12 AM
Senior

Registered Member

499 posts

cleardirect, on 15 May 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:
How long did ALPA represent us airways pilots after the NMB declared usapa the bargaining agent?

That is how long usapa will hang around and represent anyone after the APA is certified.



Reading Comprehension: C-
Read the friggin' MOU.




News Flash: 98% of PHX voters approved the MOU, effectively killing the severely flawed 'Nic' list.

 

[Claxon]

Do you think an arbitration panel would ignore and nullify final and binding arbitration?

The cornerstone of their living?

McCaskill-Bond does not require an arbitration panel. You can bet that the American Pilots will not take a chance on that. There will be an agreement between the pilot unions with significant fences and conditions and restrictions.

 

[cleardirect]

If what you say, or dream about is more like it, is true, then exactly what can M/B ever accomplish? Any union could simply get around M/B by filing and getting a single-carrier status. Somehow, I don't think the law provides for such easy circumvention.

The fact of the matter is, no one here thinks your "theory" about future events around single-carrier status is credible. Nor are you, for the most part.

This particular dream has about as much likelihood as that of your dream of an injunction on May 14th.

Grasp at those straws, though. Maybe one will hold you up out of the cesspool of your warped mind. But, I doubt it.

What is your problem with usapa going away?

The APA has a duty to represent you fairly just like usapa has a duty to fairly represent the west.

Are you concerned that the APA might do to you what usapa has been doing to the west?

Usapa has told the court that they represent the west just fine. Do you think the APA is a less honest and fair organization than usapa?

Once the NMB declares a new bargaining agent where does usapa get its authority to represent anyone?

 

[Zone5]

I didn't say I thought they would or wouldn't. I think it may depend on what evidence is presented to them. If the NIC makes its way to the arbitration panel by way of the west, the Company, APA, or by order of Silver then they certainly may give it proper consideration. If USAPA is successful in suppressing that from the evidence then obviously it wouldn't be looked at.

The subject at hand, if it ever gets to a M/B arbitration and it turns out to be a three way (looking more like it all the time), will be the integration of three separate (independent) DOH lists, not how to combine two of them and then a third. The NIC is a "tar baby" that three arbitrators would never lay hands on.

Assuming they don't see or use the NIC in any part of the new SLI award, then the question that seems more critical is do they get one DOH list from USAPA even though LCC pilots aren't integrated in that manner today, or do they get the east and west lists separately? If they end up with three lists to integrate, I would be quite surprised if they use a method other than a ratio list slotted by equipment and status. The east pilots who have returned since being furloughed in prior to the 2005 merger will be nicely protected this time (whereas they didn't have anything that could be protected in 2005/2007 since they didn't have a job at the time). Most of the west active west pilots will be pushed further down the list compared to their positions on the NIC, but they should be protected in their current. West furloughees would likely be at the bottom, but that's a risk they decided to take relative to the NIC legal battles. No matter how you slice it, I fail to see how an arbitration panel would devise a scheme that would shuffle a person up to a higher equipment/seat status by knowingly pushing another pilot down to a lower equipment/seat status as a result of their award.

Based on a POR dated snap-shot, I have no problem with a slotted three-way, based on equipment and status, if LOS is also a consideration, as it currently is even in the ALPO SLI parameters. Any C & R's protecting West flying would of course go away under this scenario, you good with that? Works for me.


seajay

 

[snapthis]

McCaskill-Bond does not require an arbitration panel. You can bet that the American Pilots will not take a chance on that. There will be an agreement between the pilot unions with significant fences and conditions and restrictions.

The only conditions and restrictions you'll every see will be put in place by Judge Silver.

 

[Claxon]

The only conditions and restrictions you'll every see will be put in place by Judge Silver.

Wake tried that, it failed miserably. The court will not interfere with negotiations

Also I hear there is serious infighting between the west pilots. awappa may be coming back. army of lyinigitas will soon be deserted by Harper and Jacob now that their damages pursuit is all but impossible. mitch and other amateur lawyers that are wannabe major airline pilots, will now try to be labor lawyers to no avail.

 

[Claxon]

Leonidas Update May 15, 2013

on 16 May 2013
.
On April 17, 2013, the Court issued an order setting a preliminary injunction hearing for May 14, 2013. Before the hearing, the Court handed our counsel a new order. This document can be found here [Doc. 84]. The transcript of the May 14, 2013 hearing can be foundhere. At the end of the hearing, Judge Silver ordered that the parties do several things: (1) submit additional briefing on the McCaskill-Bond process, including whether or not everyone has the right to be at the table for purposes of determining seniority, based on CAB precedents from before 1978; (2) whether the parties can stipulate to the relevant facts for the Court to determine whether or not there has been a violation of the duty of fair representation; and (3) briefing on what the remedy could or should be if she found a violation of the duty of fair representation. Briefs on these issues are due on Friday May 17, 2013 with responsive briefs due on May 24, 2013. Finally, the Court strongly recommended that USAPA and the West Pilots negotiate the seniority issue, with the assistance of counsel for US Airways, Bob Siegel. The parties are required to submit a report to the Court regarding the status of settlement negotiations no later than May 21, 2013.

As a result of the recent developments and the expedited briefing schedule set forth by Judge Silver, the meet and greet originally scheduled for May 17, 2013 will be postponed to a later date yet to be determined.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

 

[Crzipilot]

Did they have some RSVP's cancel?

 

[Bill Brasky]

The only conditions and restrictions you'll every see will be put in place by Judge Silver.

You'd better hope that's not the case.