April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

I wish res jud, metroyet, clear and prechill would come explain to us how the west won today.

 

[Crzipilot]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]Because of career disappointment and emotion many East pilots are confused regarding the SLI. Prior to USAPA's certification the East pilots could have used the emotional argument in their suit filed in D.C Superior Court and in mitigation discussions at DEN, Wye River, and further discussions if USAPA had not been elected.[/background]


USA320Pilot

Not worth quoting all the BS statements contained in there. About as accurate as his UAL predictions.........really man....when will you learn?

 

[electricjet98]

Just some quick notes and paraphrasing (and since the AWAPA board is being slammed):

Started @ about 1008 with Silver throwing both proposed agendas out. It looked like she may have had a proposed order or opinion she sent to the legal teams regarding HER agenda for the day and questions to be discussed.

Sounded pretty good for the west initially as she took Pat to task..."What has USAPA done since the last court date to show Good Faith", "what has USAPA done to move forward...the Nicolau isn't irrelevant", "what would have USAPA offered to the west had there been negotiations since the last court date...as she had directed".

She is still perplexed by the Ninth...and regarding/questioning USAPA's contention that it isn't ripe until a SLI is implemented, "Would a preliminary injunction ever apply"?

At about 1105 she starts in on Marty...he opens with, "USAPA wants to delay ripeness until west pilot's claim of action is moot".

She also hammers him nearly as hard as Pat regarding intransigence on negotiating between DOH and the Nic.

M/B is briefly discussed.

At about 1130 Bob Siegel speaks...he favors a 3-way at M/B. Silver questions him extensively..."Do I have the authority to require that"?

Both Pat & Marty interject at times...Marty mentions an offer of expedited arbitration that Siegel had offered to him and Pat to settle between DOH & Nic...at the time, Marty had agreed while Pat had not agreed. Pat strongly objected that his wasn't the place to bring that up.

In the end, Silver ordered that AOL/west meet and negotiate with USAPA to determine if any compromise is attainable...results due 5/21. Preliminary briefs on her other questions due 5/17, final briefs on 5/24 (if still necessary after 5/21).

 

[CallawayGolf]

Here's the issue: you can sue until you're blue in the face (if you aren't already), but since there is no legal definition of just what constitutes an LUP you'll never win. PERIOD. I don't care what that idiot Chip says.

The reason the Nic is dead is because there is NO WAY for the west to prevail. NO WAY. As far as damages go, the westies will have to sue themselves. It's their fault, no one else's, that they didn't work something out with ALPA at Wye River instead of just firing the lawyer that warned them and going home. They could be partaking in the upgrade cycle no going on in the East, but now they are locked into a dowsizing PHX market. The westies have no one to blame but themselves.

I predict that Marty sues AOL for his fees before this thing is all wrapped up. Maybe you guys should go to goodwill and pick up some duds before your meet-and-greet later this week, so you can look poor. Maybe he'll have mercy on you. Naw, he's a lawyer.

Well I never thought this new DFR attempt had any legs to it, but she didn't dismiss the case yet either. No telling at this point what she will decide in a final ruling. She does a lot of zigzagging before she finalizes her opinions.

There really is such a thing as a union losing a DFR claim and there really is such a thing as collusion with a Company and a CBA against it's members so the Company has taken the correct steps in seeking a definitive ruling on their rights and obligations with regard to USAPA's intended abrogation of an arbitrated award. The NIC is no more dead or alive than it was six months or six years ago. If USAPA or the APA ever complete a CBA with a different SLI than the NIC, then and only then will a court have, according to the Ninth, the jurisdiction to evaluate the final product and determine if harm has been effectuated in violation of federal law.

 

[Pi brat]

Just some quick notes and paraphrasing (and since the AWAPA board is being slammed):

Started @ about 1008 with Silver throwing both proposed agendas out. It looked like she may have had a proposed order or opinion she sent to the legal teams regarding HER agenda for the day and questions to be discussed.

Sounded pretty good for the west initially as she took Pat to task..."What has USAPA done since the last court date to show Good Faith", "what has USAPA done to move forward...the Nicolau isn't irrelevant", "what would have USAPA offered to the west had there been negotiations since the last court date...as she had directed".

She is still perplexed by the Ninth...and regarding/questioning USAPA's contention that it isn't ripe until a SLI is implemented, "Would a preliminary injunction ever apply"?

At about 1105 she starts in on Marty...he opens with, "USAPA wants to delay ripeness until west pilot's claim of action is moot".

She also hammers him nearly as hard as Pat regarding intransigence on negotiating between DOH and the Nic.

M/B is briefly discussed.

At about 1130 Bob Siegel speaks...he favors a 3-way at M/B. Silver questions him extensively..."Do I have the authority to require that"?

Both Pat & Marty interject at times...Marty mentions an offer of expedited arbitration that Siegel had offered to him and Pat to settle between DOH & Nic...at the time, Marty had agreed while Pat had not agreed. Pat strongly objected that his wasn't the place to bring that up.

In the end, Silver ordered that AOL/west meet and negotiate with USAPA to determine if any compromise is attainable...results due 5/21. Preliminary briefs on her other questions due 5/17, final briefs on 5/24 (if still necessary after 5/21).

Thanks.

 

[end_of_alpa]

T- 1 day, 14 hours and 14 minutes...

RIPE

Do you believe him now? More than 5 extra YEARS on LOA 93 for nothing is a very painful lesson. All bullies eventually get their asses kicked. That day is the 14 th.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=o6TwophNpks

Wrong again Claxon, dear friend.

Our attitude protected the senior West pilots from from the outrageous idiots who would have traded "a cost neutral contract" for our seniority.

That was the plan Seeham laid down. We will give the West a decrease in pay and benefits, and marginally improve ourselves off the sh1t contract that is LOA93 , and in doing so, the company will allow us to steal their seniority.

How did that work out for ya? The east got to sit on LOA93 for 5 years longer than they had to, while guys like me on the West made at least a $125k more than my east captain counterpart. Oh, and I did it with an extra 50 days of vacation and the always negotiable "crew meals".


BTW...it is still going to be the Nic, and Scherf's reply was priceless. Maybe you can find a copy of it and post it here so everybody can get a good laugh at just how stupid, clueless and irrelevant usapa has become.

And yet, it's not. It is a piece of free advice (usually which you folks rarely take). You are your own worst enemys. The industry is laughing at your continuted obstinance & douchebaggery.

I'm just waiting for the transcripts tomorrow. Then I'm going to gloat all over your....wait for it....LOSS! (Again)!

 

[Beancounter]

Just some quick notes and paraphrasing (and since the AWAPA board is being slammed):

Started @ about 1008 with Silver throwing both proposed agendas out. It looked like she may have had a proposed order or opinion she sent to the legal teams regarding HER agenda for the day and questions to be discussed.

Sounded pretty good for the west initially as she took Pat to task..."What has USAPA done since the last court date to show Good Faith", "what has USAPA done to move forward...the Nicolau isn't irrelevant", "what would have USAPA offered to the west had there been negotiations since the last court date...as she had directed".

She is still perplexed by the Ninth...and regarding/questioning USAPA's contention that it isn't ripe until a SLI is implemented, "Would a preliminary injunction ever apply"?

At about 1105 she starts in on Marty...he opens with, "USAPA wants to delay ripeness until west pilot's claim of action is moot".

She also hammers him nearly as hard as Pat regarding intransigence on negotiating between DOH and the Nic.

M/B is briefly discussed.

At about 1130 Bob Siegel speaks...he favors a 3-way at M/B. Silver questions him extensively..."Do I have the authority to require that"?

Both Pat & Marty interject at times...Marty mentions an offer of expedited arbitration that Siegel had offered to him and Pat to settle between DOH & Nic...at the time, Marty had agreed while Pat had not agreed. Pat strongly objected that his wasn't the place to bring that up.

In the end, Silver ordered that AOL/west meet and negotiate with USAPA to determine if any compromise is attainable...results due 5/21. Preliminary briefs on her other questions due 5/17, final briefs on 5/24 (if still necessary after 5/21).

Thanks for posting, I don't have access to the AWAPA board.

Bean

 

[traderjake]

Then I'm going to gloat all over your....wait for it....LOSS! (Again)!

Gloating about gloating.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Gloating about gloating.

You bet!

 

[nycbusdriver]

If USAPA or the APA ever complete a CBA with a different SLI than the NIC, then and only then will a court have, according to the Ninth, the jurisdiction to evaluate the final product and determine if harm has been effectuated in violation of federal law.

Truer words were never spoken. That exactly what the Ninth said in so many words years ago, and theirs is still the controlling ruling despite all the nonsense suits filed by AOL and the company.

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAPA must see today as a huge win since the Comm Committee actually posted a report already. If it's bad news, we have to wait days to hear from the union.

 

[ROACLT]

Truer words were never spoken. That exactly what the Ninth said in so many words years ago, and theirs is still the controlling ruling despite all the nonsense suits filed by AOL and the company.

I know years ago, I tried to make this point. I was dismissed as some dingy dock worker and no one or no attorney associated with ILWU could possibly understand labor law as it might pertain to pilots.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I know years ago, I tried to make this point. I was dismissed as some dingy dock worker and no one or no attorney associated with ILWU could possibly understand labor law as it might pertain to pilots.

If the rumored words of Judge Silver today are true, then a lot of people on this forum need to now eat their words about the Nic. That includes self-appointed-labor-law-expert stock clerks.

 

[Bill Brasky]

I know years ago, I tried to make this point. I was dismissed as some dingy dock worker and no one or no attorney associated with ILWU could possibly understand labor law as it might pertain to pilots.

I remember your posts and always thought you were spot-on. In fact, I always thought yours to be among the most sensible and thought out posts on here.

 

[Pi brat]

I know years ago, I tried to make this point. I was dismissed as some dingy dock worker and no one or no attorney associated with ILWU could possibly understand labor law as it might pertain to pilots.

I too remember your posts.