April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

have you an APA lanyard to spare, brother???

No. But Heck!....I don't even have any "Integrity Matters" or even "Dire Wolves" T-shirts though, and I unwisely failed to set up a pom pom selling franchise in PHX 6 years ago, so...best to ask others. 🙂

 

[cleardirect]

Here is the real reason AMR wants this done. For all you east guys that think you can drag out separate ops for a couple more years. Think again.

It is difficult to imagine a labor case in which impending injury would be more certain, or
in which the direct and immediate hardship that would result from waiting is more patent.
American is about to embark on a merger valued at approximately $10 billion. As with most
mergers, the value in the merger is bound up in the ability to achieve efficiencies from combining
operations as soon as possible; the longer the merged company is required to operate separately
one “American” pilot workforce and a second “US Airways” pilot workforce, the more the value
of the merger for shareholders will be degraded. The competitive capacity of the merged airline
— and thus the livelihood of the tens of thousands of individuals the airline will employ — will
turn on the airline’s ability to capitalize quickly on the opportunities the merger presents. Delay
means diminished opportunities.

 

[FL430]

This really is the most important paragraph.




AMR has no problem with the language of the west injunction. What AMR is concerned about is that usapa will try and screw up their deal, delay or once again fail to live up to your word. usapa has proven to be untrustworthy. the rest of the industry knows this now. AMR knows that usapa has no honor and fails to live up to their word.

And what did AMR do to the TWA people? Do you think that was honorable? Do you think if they had the chance they wouldn't do it to you?

 

[Claxon]

Did the DOJ approve this merger, was the POR approved? When is the MOU effective for pay, benefits and seniority?

I forgot crew meals.

 

[dca319]

So; How's life treating you, Move2clt?

"I suggest you continue to do so." Or what?....You'll threaten me with your XBox again, mighty "spartan"? 🙂

All kidding aside...You need to get yourself some help.

Back to the move thing Gunny? And you want to challenge me on your XBox? Sounds like you need the help soldier. Better get it soon. I understand you're ready to retire.

 

[EastUS1]

Back to the move thing Gunny? And you want to challenge me on your XBox? Sounds like you need the help soldier. Better get it soon. I understand you're ready to retire.

I rest my case Move. You should consider professional help. Your choice, as you harm none but yourself otherwise. A minor point of curiosity though: At what point in your life did the use of any military ranks whatsoever, seem to you to become a proper "insult"?

 

[cleardirect]

It was precisely for that reason that US Airways, American and their respective pilot unions negotiated a detailed, comprehensive pre-merger collective bargaining agreement, with meticulous attention to deadlines, to ensure that the labor components of the merger could be effectuated as soon as possible. USAPA, however, continues to delay the process of resolving the internal US Airways pilot seniority integration dispute (a resolution that obviously would facilitate the process of merging the American and US Airways pilot seniority lists). It now claims, not only that this dispute is not currently ripe, but that it will not become ripe for years — until the operational integration of the airlines is otherwise completed and the parties have finished the JCBA process.

That is not tenable. The bankruptcy court has approved the merger. The Plan of Reorganization, which incorporates the MOU, has been filed and is awaiting approval by the bankruptcy court. The risk of harm to American is imminent. USAPA has contractually agreed to begin the merger-related seniority integration process “as soon as possible after” the Plan is approved and American emerges from Chapter 11 — a date scheduled to arrive early in the third quarter. This potential injury to American’s contract rights is not remote or insubstantial; it is here and now.

To the extent it applies here, ripeness is a prudential doctrine, not a jurisdictional rule. See Addington v. U.S. Airline Pilots Ass’n, 606 F.3d 1174 (9th Cir. 2010). Given the current state of affairs, it would be unwarranted and imprudent in the extreme to use that doctrine to deny the merging parties the benefit of their bargain and frustrate American’s efforts to realize the advantages expected by the new company’s shareholders and employees alike.7

7 It is worth noting that the bankruptcy court expressed unequivocally its view that “[t]here needs to be a decision as to what the integration is going to be by [USAPA].” See Transcript of April 3, 2013 hearing, In Re AMR Corporation, United States Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, 13-01282-shl, Doc. 20-1, attached hereto as Exhibit B, at 33. Resolving the US Airways seniority dispute, the court concluded “is a precondition to the [seniority] integration [process] that’s contemplated by this merger . . . . You have to figure out what the rights are within [US Airways] first.” Id., at 21. The court observed that “[c]ertainly there is a live dispute about [US Airways] seniority as a result of that merger. I would think after 13 [sic; eight] years I guess one would think it's ripe for decision.” Id., at 31.

unwarranted and imprudent in the extreme to deny the merging parties the benefit of the bargain.

Like the east denying the west any benefits of our bargain. The money men understand the concept it is only east pilots that don't understand living up to your deals and not trying to steal all the benefits.

 

[Claxon]

DOJ and POR approval, CBA signed? Just to name a few, this is green bananas now.

(“[W]e do not require, or even permit, union members to bring a suit
against their union simply because the union has announced its future
intention to break its duty.&rdquo😉; Teamsters Local Union No. 42 v. NLRB, 825
F.2d 608, 615-16 (1st Cir. 1987) (“Knowledge of a party’s predisposition
to commit an unfair labor practice or suspicion that, when the moment is
opportune, the knife thrust will follow, is not enough to galvanize § 10( B).
The statute begins to run only when the impermissible act or omission —
the unfair labor practice — actually takes place.&rdquo😉.

Are any of the MOU benefits taking place now? Was the POR approved by the Judge? Did the DOJ approve the merger? Is there a final seniority list? Did you see the pay raises in your checks yet East pilots?

 

[prechilill]

unwarranted and imprudent in the extreme to deny the merging parties the benefit of the bargain.

Like the east denying the west any benefits of our bargain. The money men understand the concept it is only east pilots that don't understand living up to your deals and not trying to steal all the benefits.

The nails are collecting in the USAP's coffin. Again, from Doc 57 page 9:



14 Language consistent with the proposed injunctive
15 relief sought by Plaintiffs would, in American’s view, be adequate to protect its interests in this
16 regard. See Plaintiffs’ Proposed Order, Doc. 53-1.

 

[EastUS1]

That wasn't her. Her name was Karen I think. From NY state.

Ah! I'd thought the "moderator" and crew news personality to be the same person.

 

[cleardirect]

And what did AMR do to the TWA people? Do you think that was honorable? Do you think if they had the chance they wouldn't do it to you?

AMR did not do that to TWA. The APA did. Get your players correct.

usapa is trying to do to the west what APA did to the TWA guys. Screw us. Do you think that is honorable? The courts are going to finally take care of this.

 

[prechilill]

Ah! I'd thought the "moderator" and crew news personality to be the same person.

I'm a senior pilot. Looking for a left seat to occupy. Can't decide between the 320 or the 76...

 

[dca319]

I rest my case Move. You should consider professional help. Your choice, as you harm none but yourself otherwise. A minor point of curiosity though: At what point in your life did the use of any military ranks whatsoever, seem to you to become a proper "insult"?

You can't help yourself, can you LtJG? Go back to read only as your time here is short. You'll have plenty to do with your XBox and lots of time to accomplish your dog fight fantasies.

 

[EastUS1]

You can't help yourself, can you LtJG? Go back to read only as your time here is short. You'll have plenty to do with your XBox and lots of time to accomplish your dog fight fantasies.

Not that such is at all healthy behavior Move, but a kindly suggestion, should you insist on constructing any faux personas in the future...well...you need to be able to express yourself in less than perfectly established footsteps and fingerprints of your real self.

"General".."Gunny"..."LtJG"....? Again though: How did it first happen for you that military ranks somehow, in your mind, became employable as supposed "insults", and do you realize what that says about you? Is that what they taught you at "spartan" day-care, or did it spin-off from being among your fellow "knights who've fought with valor in many battles", under the august leadership of the self-styled, "Supreme Commander" of your little "army"? 🙂

 

[FL430]

I rest my case Move. You should consider professional help. Your choice, as you harm none but yourself otherwise. A minor point of curiosity though: At what point in your life did the use of any military ranks whatsoever, seem to you to become a proper "insult"?

Did you notice that dca319 "aka MovetoCLT" completely ignored my posts to him and gave him a chance to prove himself an east pilot and he capitulated so pathetically.